Dame Time

[HermanG]

So the question in my mind is who is your second move? In terms of availability, you may max out at like an Anunoby guy. Does that core take you far enough? I guess part of that is determining what we land in the draft.

I dont know. Depends on availability, price etc. OG is a high end option but his deal expires after next season and Masai asking price could still be high.

Wouldnt do it without assurances or we possibly just blundered the great situation for a single shot.

If I had to throw out names that might come on the cheap but still complement that trio well Id say Caruso (if Bulls blow up stuff) and Collins.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Assuming the jazz didn’t have the first pick they’d want this years pick.

Probably but I would tell them no. We’d need the young guys this year to hopefully build up a contender in the next year or two.

 

[hgb]

Dame is great, but I'm really, really skeptical. I wouldn't give up much at all for what might just be a really bad contract. He's had his injury issues the previous years, after all.

 

[Elizah Huge]

We should have just kept Donovan Mitchell.

No, we shouldn’t have. I would take Markkanen over Mitchell right now all things considered. Plus you add the fact we got Sexton, Agbaji, 3 firsts and 2 pick swaps all unprotected it’s not particularly close.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I agree this time he is gonna leave. Portland will never give him a winning roster before time is up.

What you say makes sense. JC doesnt fit that picture for me since we would have plenty scoring potential between Dame, Lauri and Kessler playing with 2 3&D types. JC doesnt bring much more than scoring to the table, and I would complement that team with shooters who use their energy on D.

Biggest concern is the back end of his deal and the fact that we still lack that elite lockdown PoA defender who we would have to trade for as well. Is that too risky/expensive?

the backend of the deal is what I think would end up making the price for Dame being lower than some might think... who knows though... price could still be prohibitive.

Guys that can shoot the piss out of the ball tend to age better... I am really curious what Dame's post prime looks like.

I think we could find some budget 3 and D types. I'd aim for DFS rather than a guy like OG.

To be clear I don't think this for sure happens... I could see scenarios where it becomes real because price and other things line up.

 

[HeatCheck]

That type of age gap between Dame and Kessler/Lauri typically doesn't work in the NBA. We already saw it firsthand with Rudy/Don and they were only 5 years apart. There is a decade between Dame and Kessler.

Ainge has made some trades for big time guards (Ray Allen, Kyrie) during his time in Boston but those acquisitions matched the timeline of the roster. Ray Allen was 30 but he was on the same timeline as KG and Pierce. If Dame gets traded it's probably to join a veteran player with rings such as LeBron or even Giannis.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

With regard to Dame's potential decline... he had a down year last year because of the core injury... I had kinda raised an eyebrow at that... but man dude has bounced back this year and has been bonkers.

Age isn't great but he has 3 less nba years on his knees because he was a 4 year college guy. So a little less wear and tear. He's also kind of a maniac worker which may add or remove some useful life there. I could see him and Steph aging amazingly. CP with all his injury issues has still been really effective... and he isn't the shooter Dame is.

I'd use the narrative to get the price to a reasonable place hopefully but I do think there are reasons for optimism about his next 4 years.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That type of age gap between Dame and Kessler/Lauri typically doesn't work in the NBA. We already saw it firsthand with Rudy/Don and they were only 5 years apart. There is a decade between Dame and Kessler.

Ainge has made some trades for big time guards (Ray Allen, Kyrie) during his time in Boston but those acquisitions matched the timeline of the roster. Ray Allen was 30 but he was on the same timeline as KG and Pierce. If Dame gets traded it's probably to join a veteran player with rings such as LeBron or even Giannis.

What do the Bucks and Lakers have to offer though? One pick ain't getting it done. LA moving AD to bring in Dame would be surprising to me... i think it would be their only avenue.

IF Dame did want out I think the Heat, Knicks, Nets, GS (maybe), NOP would be the most likely suitors that would have enough stuff to offer. Fitting that large of a contract is also going to be challenging.

I get the timeline thing though. I just don't know if there is any really great strategy there with how much player movement and things go on nowadays. Not sure you can build with a 5-10 year timeline anymore.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Wow, I'm really conflicted about this idea. I love Dame and get the idea of rebuilding quickly around Lauri, but I was kind of looking forward to watching a group of unproven guys grow in to contenders. As has already been mentioned, the age and contract are issues for me as well. Hmm... not sure I can get on board.

 

[infection]

We should've traded Westbrook, Tomic and the Nets pick for him. Portland does it because Westbrook is a former MVP and because Tomic can be the second coming of Arvydas Sabonis, making a late-career entry into the league. We no longer have his rights but I'm not sure if that matters anymore.

 

[Jaanipoeg]

With regard to Dame's potential decline... he had a down year last year because of the core injury... I had kinda raised an eyebrow at that... but man dude has bounced back this year and has been bonkers.

Age isn't great but he has 3 less nba years on his knees because he was a 4 year college guy. So a little less wear and tear. He's also kind of a maniac worker which may add or remove some useful life there. I could see him and Steph aging amazingly. CP with all his injury issues has still been really effective... and he isn't the shooter Dame is.

I'd use the narrative to get the price to a reasonable place hopefully but I do think there are reasons for optimism about his next 4 years.

100% agree that Dame could age gracefully, especially given his work-ethic and commitment to his body (diet). Injuries are fluky so you never know, but as far as older players to bet on he is a good bet.

I think Miami would be the biggest rival this offseason. They could offer 3 firsts, but would have to move two of Lowry/Duncan/Herro most likely. Herro is a good get from pure value, but Duncan/Lowry are big negatives. I could see taking on Sexton and cap relief could be a big draw for our offer over theirs. Maybe Brooklyn but I personally struggle to see them going big for a old player again so soon. IDK, I agree it would have to be accompanied by another move or else we may be bringing Lillard in to another play-in purgatory for his final years, but my love for Lillard is not letting me think straight about it all

 

[David Stern]

We should've traded Westbrook, Tomic and the Nets pick for him. Portland does it because Westbrook is a former MVP and because Tomic can be the second coming of Arvydas Sabonis, making a late-career entry into the league. We no longer have his rights but I'm not sure if that matters anymore.

Tomic will forever be the piece to make all trades work, I don’t care if we don’t have his rights

 

[framer]

Tomic will forever be the piece to make all trades work, I don’t care if we don’t have his rights

Has anyone ever seen Tomic and Cash Considerations in the same room together?

 

[framer]

We will never know everything. What we do know is that Donovan linked up with Coach Hardy AFTER the Rudy trade BEFORE Don was traded. I don't think he does that if he was pushing his way out. But we will never know everything.

Kessler and Mitchell while Kessler is making his current salary is a major difference. Kessler is part of a center rotation and not the entire center rotation in a system built around a limited center.

We should have never traded Donovan Mitchell without trying to build around him first. It will go down as one of the biggest mistakes in franchise history. I like Lauri and all, but we never even tried to build around Donovan Mitchell. Ever.

I say that in light of the fact that we are discussing Dame Lillard. Donovan Mitchell is better in every single way (age, ability, etc.).

I sleep fine at night with the trade. Even with the year he is having, I don't think Cleveland could get back the value they sent out if they traded him. Danny timed the height of the market. . .twice.

 

[framer]

What do the Bucks and Lakers have to offer though? One pick ain't getting it done. LA moving AD to bring in Dame would be surprising to me... i think it would be their only avenue.

IF Dame did want out I think the Heat, Knicks, Nets, GS (maybe), NOP would be the most likely suitors that would have enough stuff to offer. Fitting that large of a contract is also going to be challenging.

I get the timeline thing though. I just don't know if there is any really great strategy there with how much player movement and things go on nowadays. Not sure you can build with a 5-10 year timeline anymore.

Honestly, you could just give Portland the remaining part of the Cleveland package minus Lauri and they would consider it. Trading Donovan for Lauri and Lillard is an all timer, no?

 

[fishonjazz]

I like Dame a lot. And he would be great, for a couple of seasons.

The Jazz traded for Conley's large contract when he was 32 iirc. Dame will be 33 in July. Dame is a better player than Mike, but I could see the same type of regret, especially paying him $60mm per year, that's too much for a 35/36 year old which in turn makes it hard to fill out a balanced roster (part of Portland's problem).

I'd rather have a more balanced roster with talent at every position, and would like to see players within a couple years of Lauri. I'm fine with trading draft capital for a star, but the combination of age and salary would make me wary of getting Dame, although he is one of my favorites, and he's a super nice guy.

As part of a bigger move that adds great talent at other positions would be a different story if we can be back in contention for the next couple of seasons, but paying that max contract though 25/26 is a tough pill to swallow. Dame alone would not get this team a chip.

60 million per year? For realz? **** that


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[fishonjazz]

We should have just kept Donovan Mitchell.

I want to agree. But what we got for Don was too awesome for me to want to go back and keep him.


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[Handlogten's Heros]

60 million per year? For realz? **** that


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Its 60M the last two years of the deal... which is a lot... but the cap is like 180M plus at that point. So its like 45M-ish in current cap perspective.

It would be baked into the acquisition price (or sure as hell should be) so you are giving up less hopefully.

 

[fishonjazz]

the backend of the deal is what I think would end up making the price for Dame being lower than some might think... who knows though... price could still be prohibitive.

Guys that can shoot the piss out of the ball tend to age better... I am really curious what Dame's post prime looks like.

I think we could find some budget 3 and D types. I'd aim for DFS rather than a guy like OG.

To be clear I don't think this for sure happens... I could see scenarios where it becomes real because price and other things line up.

Thing is, he doesnt shoot the piss out of the ball. He is a good shotter but not great imo. I consider 40% from three to be the benchmark of a great shooter. In his 11 seasons he has made 40% from three just once when he shot 40.1% from three. Steph has 12 season over 40% from three for a comparison.
Last year he shot 32% from three for the season. What if we were paying him 60 miliion per year and he had lost a step and was shooting 32% from three? Ouch that would suck.

Its just too much money imo. We would be back to having that 2nd round of the playoffs ceiling again (dame rarely goes deep in the playoffs)


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[Handlogten's Heros]

Honestly, you could just give Portland the remaining part of the Cleveland package minus Lauri and they would consider it. Trading Donovan for Lauri and Lillard is an all timer, no?

Its not bad... I'd attempt to give back less than the Cleveland package though.