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D'Angelo Russell

stitches said:
I'm in. He's my favorite from the realistic targets in free agency. The problem is we probably will need to give him money that he's not justified with his play so far so we will need to project a bit for the future.
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think the Russell we are seeing now is the peak of what he is. I don't mind overpaying for 2nd contract players if I think they have a high ceiling, but I don't see that with Russell.

I'm not trying to say he's bad, but he's a 23 year old who plays like a 33 year old Jose Calderon. He can't get by anyone in isolation, he's terrible at finishing, and can't get to the FT line.
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I agree with Cy's statement and the trouble in acquiring him is either you have to overpay as mentioned by stitches or trade and then hope you can sign him to something closer to value or match something reasonable. You pay a premium for the name/draft pedigree. His teammate, Spencer Dinwiddie, is a much better player... but fought through injuries, being waived, etc. so he may not be viewed as better.

Russell's game last night is a good example... 22 and 13 is great... did it on 21 shots (4 turnovers is fine) but zero FT attempts... and pretty bad defense. That's a really good Russell game though. He's like Zach LaVine to me... kinda empty stats and doesn't always play winning basketball. If we got him at 17-19M a year in FA with no other acquisition costs then I'm cool with the gamble. Overpay him and that could go sideways quickly... give up assets in a trade and then have to overpay him and I think its horrendous.

Remember... there are some **** teams with cap space this year... no one will come cheap.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think the Russell we are seeing now is the peak of what he is. I don't mind overpaying for 2nd contract players if I think they have a high ceiling, but I don't see that with Russell.

I'm not trying to say he's bad, but he's a 23 year old who plays like a 33 year old Jose Calderon. He can't get by anyone in isolation, he's terrible at finishing, and can't get to the FT line.
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He's not the perfect player, but he's an improvement on what we have and should only get better.

The most points Calderon ever scored in a season was 12.8ppg (his second was 11.6). Russell has averaged more than that in all 4 of his pro seasons.
 
LoPo said:
He's not the perfect player, but he's an improvement on what we have and should only get better.

The most points Calderon ever scored in a season was 12.8ppg (his second was 11.6). Russell has averaged more than that in all 4 of his pro seasons.
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You sound like some of the Knicks GM’s from over the years. I don’t want to just be decent or ok. And we’d be lucky if Russell gets us to that point


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I'm starting to catch on to the fact that somebody is going to complain about every prospect presented to the forum. If we had a chance at LeBron, somebody would say he's too old.

At the end of the day, who cares if we overpay for a player who will make us better? We had money a few years ago and we spent $5+ on Thabo, $4+ on Jerekbo and $3.5+ on Udoh after using all our remaining 2016/17 cap space and a 1st rounder on Rubio. Last summer, we had money and spent $17 on Favors, kept Thabo at $5+ and overpaid Exum.

Passing up on a chance at player like D'Angelo Russell because he might get a few million more than we want to pay OR we think we are going to get some great free agent is just foolish. He helps us win right now and he is probably with us for the long term. The alternative is re-tread with Rubio or Hill. Or just go with Exum.
 
However, I do think Russell is a good fit w/ Mitchell. He's certainly a PG and someone who can run an offense, but he's just so bad at everything that isn't shooting/dribbling/passing.
 
I view Russell a lot like I do that one guy that I can't even remember. I liked both of them in college because they seemed well rounded. Both at Ohio State. Both have been very meh while in the league and I feel like their numbers are empty. Can't even remember that other guy's damn name. Came out same year as Hayward.
 
LoPo said:
I'm starting to catch on to the fact that somebody is going to complain about every prospect presented to the forum. If we had a chance at LeBron, somebody would say he's too old.

At the end of the day, who cares if we overpay for a player who will make us better? We had money a few years ago and we spent $5+ on Thabo, $4+ on Jerekbo and $3.5+ on Udoh after using all our remaining 2016/17 cap space and a 1st rounder on Rubio. Last summer, we had money and spent $17 on Favors, kept Thabo at $5+ and overpaid Exum.

Passing up on a chance at player like D'Angelo Russell because he might get a few million more than we want to pay OR we think we are going to get some great free agent is just foolish. He helps us win right now and he is probably with us for the long term. The alternative is re-tread with Rubio or Hill. Or just go with Exum.
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I don’t even know how to argue with this weird as hell logic you have. This whole thing has just gone over your head. You just want the jazz to spend for the purpose of spending. That’s the the most clear I can be as to why this is a bad.... well, not bad, but horrendously bad idea.


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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Russell has taken 150 shots in December and only attempted 8 free throws.
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In December, he has averaged 18.6ppg, 7.7apg, 3.4rpg as the lead guard on a team who has won 6 straight games including wins over the Lakers, Sixers and Raptors.

So what if he doesn't get to the FT line all too much?
 
Thee jazz fan said:
I don’t even know how to argue with this weird as hell logic you have. This whole thing has just gone over your head. You just want the jazz to spend for the purpose of spending. That’s the the most clear I can be as to why this is a bad.... well, not bad, but horrendously bad idea.


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Russell is an improvement on Rubio. So if we spend a little more than the $15 million we are currently spending on Rubio, I'm okay with it for the sake of the improvement.

We should trade for him now because we are unlikely to sign him in the summer. We are unlikely to sign any player as good as D'Angelo Russell in the summer because in the history of our franchise, we have only signed two guys who could be considered better than Russell (Mehmet and Carlos).
 
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My top 5 targets in order would be Middleton, Harris, Porter, Mirotic, Gallo. Middleton and Harris are probably unrealistic at this point. I think the other 3 might be gettable, especially Gallo and Niko.
 
LoPo said:
In December, he has averaged 18.6ppg, 7.7apg, 3.4rpg as the lead guard on a team who has won 6 straight games including wins over the Lakers, Sixers and Raptors.

So what if he doesn't get to the FT line all too much?
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Uhh, exactly. He's hitting a high percentage on tough shots and he's still only averaging 18.6 ppg on 16.7 shots in that stretch.

Ricky Rubio, a bad shooter, averages more points per shot than Russell on the season.

So Russell, while having a pretty good shooting year, is still a really below average efficiency scorer. When those hard shots stop dropping, he's going to be a terrible offensive player.

So he has to evolve into a consistently elite shooter to be an efficient player. That's a huge bet considering he struggles to create separation.

Then you factor in he's not a good defender.
 
Evan Turner has proven to be a SF in the NBA. His best season was 14ppg but only a few assists per game. He had another season with 9ppg and 5apg. He has never been a PG.

Russell played a couple seasons with the terrible Lakers and struggling Brooklyn. This season's Brooklyn (during Russell's 4th season), has been the only solid team he's been on. His playing really good basketball. He is a PG willing to be the facilitator and that's important. Our biggest weakness in my opinion is PG and there are no clear cut improvements at the position via trade or free agency.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Uhh, exactly. He's hitting a high percentage on tough shots and he's still only averaging 18.6 ppg on 16.7 shots in that stretch.

Ricky Rubio, a bad shooter, averages more points per shot than Russell on the season.

So Russell, while having a pretty good shooting year, is still a really below average efficiency scorer. When those hard shots stop dropping, he's going to be a terrible offensive player.

So he has to evolve into a consistently elite shooter to be an efficient player. That's a huge bet considering he struggles to create separation.

Then you factor in he's not a good defender.
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- Rubio has a EFG% of 45% while shooting 11 shots per game. Russell has a EFG% of 49.6% while shooting 17 shots per game.
- Rubio gets to shoot wide freaking open shots. Russell does not.
- Rubio plays on a better team than Brooklyn yet he still struggles offensively.
- Russell gets more assists while having less turnovers than Rubio.


Let me emphasize, Rubio is the worst statistical starter on our team and he gets to shoot wide open shots. In our offense, Russell would have a much, much easier time scoring and facilitating.
 
LoPo said:
Russell is an improvement on Rubio. So if we spend a little more than the $15 million we are currently spending on Rubio, I'm okay with it for the sake of the improvement.

We should trade for him now because we are unlikely to sign him in the summer. We are unlikely to sign any player as good as D'Angelo Russell in the summer because in the history of our franchise, we have only signed two guys who could be considered better than Russell (Mehmet and Carlos).
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I don’t consider him much of an improvement to Rubio if at all, and I don’t want Rubio back next year.
 
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