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Dear Fat People

As a fat person I wish to go on record that I do not enjoy being shamed. That said, I don't give a **** what other people think about me, as long as they like me and are nice to me and stuff.
 
Howard said:
We can call people racist, intolerant, pricks, assholes, etc, and that's fine, but heaven forbid you call somebody fat. ****, you can say smokers are disgusting, but just try say that about a fat person. It's a choice to be fat or not (for the majority of people).
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A couple of questions for you:

1. How old are you?
2. How do you define fat?

I ask because as those of us who have hit middle age know, keeping the same svelte body you had as a 20 year old once you hit 40+ becomes increasingly challenging, particularly for women who have had children, and given that your metabolism slows down, life often tends to get more stressful and with less leisure time on a day to day basis for exercise. I ask how old you are because I wonder if you've yet experienced the challenges of keeping weight off at middle age. I ask how you define fat because I wonder if you consider the common middle-age spread to constitute 'fat.'

I agree that in many cases being fat IS a function of lifestyle and choices one makes, but you act as if one has free, unfettered choice, which isn't constrained by other factors physical, emotional, psychological, etc.

Staying fit is doable, as is losing weight for the non-fit, but it's certainly not THAT easy, particularly for those hitting middle-age.

Note also that the vast majority of people who lose weight gain it back; losing and keeping weight off requires a very drastic set of sustained behavioral changes. As you might know, humans, as a race, struggle with behavioral change.

When I see a truly obese person, I ask myself how the hell they let themselves get like that. But it saying that, I know darn well that losing that weight for that person would most likely be a titanic (pun intended) struggle. It's easy to gain weight, but very, very hard to take it off and keep it off.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
A couple of questions for you:

1. How old are you?
2. How do you define fat?

I ask because as those of us who have hit middle age know, keeping the same svelte body you had as a 20 year old once you hit 40+ becomes increasingly challenging, particularly for women who have had children, and given that your metabolism slows down, life often tends to get more stressful and with less leisure time on a day to day basis for exercise. I ask how old you are because I wonder if you've yet experienced the challenges of keeping weight off at middle age. I ask how you define fat because I wonder if you consider the common middle-age spread to constitute 'fat.'

I agree that in many cases being fat IS a function of lifestyle and choices one makes, but you act as if one has free, unfettered choice, which isn't constrained by other factors physical, emotional, psychological, etc.

Staying fit is doable, as is losing weight for the non-fit, but it's certainly not THAT easy, particularly for those hitting middle-age.

Note also that the vast majority of people who lose weight gain it back; losing and keeping weight off requires a very drastic set of sustained behavioral changes. As you might know, humans, as a race, struggle with behavioral change.

When I see a truly obese person, I ask myself how the hell they let themselves get like that. But it saying that, I know darn well that losing that weight for that person would most likely be a titanic (pun intended) struggle. It's easy to gain weight, but very, very hard to take it off and keep it off.
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Good question! I'll give you an example: my dad is 62, about 6'2 and probly 240-250 pounds. He has a pretty good sized gut. He is definitely overweight, but can still outwork most 20 year olds. He is not the type of person I'm talking about. I'm talking about the truckers I see almost every day that can barely climb out of their truck, the people that are easily 50-100 pounds overweight. I can't say a specific weight because body frames are different, and I can't use BMI because that's easy to misinterpret due to muscle mass.

I understand the difficulty for middle aged to old people. Metabolism just slows down, menopause, kids, etc. With that said, I still think there's hardly any excuse to be obese, and especially so for young people. We shouldn't shame them, but we shouldn't encourage it or tell them it's ok either. I'll be honest, when I see college aged people that are obese, male or female, I find it disgusting. I realize I'm rude, but I think the same thing about smokers. Which reminds me, it's ridiculous that being fat is acceptable, but smoking is disgusting. Pretty big double standard there.
 
Howard said:
Good question! I'll give you an example: my dad is 62, about 6'2 and probly 240-250 pounds. He has a pretty good sized gut. He is definitely overweight, but can still outwork most 20 year olds. He is not the type of person I'm talking about. I'm talking about the truckers I see almost every day that can barely climb out of their truck, the people that are easily 50-100 pounds overweight. I can't say a specific weight because body frames are different, and I can't use BMI because that's easy to misinterpret due to muscle mass.

I understand the difficulty for middle aged to old people. Metabolism just slows down, menopause, kids, etc. With that said, I still think there's hardly any excuse to be obese, and especially so for young people. We shouldn't shame them, but we shouldn't encourage it or tell them it's ok either. I'll be honest, when I see college aged people that are obese, male or female, I find it disgusting. I realize I'm rude, but I think the same thing about smokers. Which reminds me, it's ridiculous that being fat is acceptable, but smoking is disgusting. Pretty big double standard there.
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Fair enough. As someone who comes from a family in which about one-half are obese (I'm one of the non-obese one, but only because I work hard to eat reasonably and stay fit), I can say from personal experience that there's a veritable witch's brew of emotional and psychological sh** that comes with being obese that these people struggle with constantly, including dealing with bombarding messages that being fat makes one less of a person, and that losing weight gets caught up in the vortex of all this sh**, making it very, very difficult to find the personal wherewithal to lose and keep off weight.

For those who have not experienced it, and for whom it's an abstraction, it's very easy to wonder why the hell they just don't suck it up and lose weight.

It's difficult and making them feel even more like sh** DOES NOT WORK. Any social marketing campaign that focuses on fat shaming will not work either, and I think it would be challenge to come up with a campaign that has messages, which actually work. But I do think it needs to be done, if for no other reason than I'm tired of sitting next to fat people on airplanes.
 
VINYLONE said:
Can you be more specific? With the recent health articles that have come out in regards to cholesterol, fat and sodium intake, Mr. Denninger has been spot on. If you've got a problem with the meat of the article, what's the issue?
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I read a little of his stuff.

There has been a ton of new information that fat doesn't make you fat and doesn't give you heart disease. The craziest part is that the American Heart Association has been the most aggressive about pushing back against that message and continuing to push their low fat diet that has been an absolute disaster for health in the U.S.
 
Seriously!?!? Asking if fat people should be shamed has about as much validity as asking if stupid people should legally be allowed to breed.
 
Public shaming would fail miserably as a policy. Anyone who thinks it would have the least chance of working has zero understanding of human nature.
 
E.J. Wells said:
I'm not sure what was worse: those articles, or the fact that I read both of them. Holy **** balls, did babe write those? The only thing missing was a Magic Bullet and Jimmy Hoffa's corpse.
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I'm ready to do a complete aversion diagnosis for you, trout. However, I really don't care, and I'm certain you don't either. A lot of fish in your diet would normally be a healthy thing, and as the articles point out, if you read them, would naturally trend towards a more appropriate personal metabolism, weight, and health. One of the things I attribute my relatively good health to is a prominent amount of fish in my diet.

No magic bullet for good health, and the only thing different about Jimmy Hoffa might have been the cement footgear. Plastic sandals float and are great for fishing trips.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Public shaming would fail miserably as a policy. Anyone who thinks it would have the least chance of working has zero understanding of human nature.
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However, public shaming along ideological lines is an effective educational method. Authoritative harassment is not the same thing as schoolyard bullying, which must be suppressed to keep the teachers' harassment of students effective.
 
I have two more things to add to this thread:

1. I'm reading lots of "excuses".
2. Health and fitness start in the kitchen. If you do not fuel your body right, no amount of exercise will yeild results. The only way to lose weight, is to burn more calories than you take in. Lean proteins, good fats and good carbohydrates.
 
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MVP said:
Calories consumed<calories spend=weight loss. Can't be any more simple.
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Well, simple minds, perhaps.

But this topic relates to something more complex. . . . habits, attitudes, conditioned behaviors. . . . even political agendas for driving social change or healthcare.

"Should X people be shamed?" What for? When? How? When people set out to enforce some ideal of society by imposing hate or shame, it rubs against other ideals, like personal rights.

I'd be more inclined to call the shamers bigots and use the term "shamer" as something worse than most of our epithets. Vinny has been asking me for examples of how "liberals" today are more intolerant than "conservatives". Those terms fail in this topic because "shamers" are in a sense the "conservatives" who want to use government to enforce a behavior code. It's a matter of who controls the rhetoric, not what the rhetoric really means.

"liberals" as some style themselves at the moment, are the ones pushing the agenda for more government power or more intolerance in this case.

I understand that when government assumes total control of health care, the idea is pretty much going to be assuming total control of all personal decisions and behaviors that might reasonably impose expenses to that healthcare budget.

Couch Potatos of the World!!!!! Unite!!!!! Reject intrusive government projecting an agenda of intolerance and hate against you!!!!!

Popaholics of the World!!!!! Unite!!!!! Defend your sippy cups and high-fructose addictions that enrich ArcherDanielsMidlands, whose railroad cars full of high fructose corn syrup are responsible for the modern obesity and diabetes epidemic!!!!!!

Well, I don't want to pay for the health care of ignorant folks who can't be reasoned with about good health practices, so I don't hold with national, single-payer, or in fact any government involvement in health care. If you want to help the poor, put your own money up for it, and fund your own charity. And I think "liberals" do use "hate" to push their ideals.

I'd like to reason with those "liberals" a bit. Why not get up a drive to sue Archer Daniels Midland corporation and other food cartels and make them pay for the obesity and diabetes they cause?

Nope. . . . Nope. . . . No way. . . .. That wouldn't do anything to make government more powerful, and there'd be no personal jollies in that. You really do like to tell others they are lesser humans. . . . .

Liberals today are intolerant bigots who hate anyone who doesn't buy their load. But I love ya, anyway. You are so much fun to shame.
 
Red Jazz Fan said:
I have two more things to add to this thread:

1. I'm reading lots of "excuses".
2. Health and fitness start in the kitchen. If you do not fuel your body right, no amount of exercise will yeild results. The only way to lose weight, is to burn more calories than you take in. Lean proteins, good fats and good carbohydrates.
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Yeah, I think 80% of losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is diet. I think most folks love to stuff their fat faces.
 
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LogGrad98 said:
Public shaming would fail miserably as a policy. Anyone who thinks it would have the least chance of working has zero understanding of human nature.
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I absolutely agree. I see someone shaming over something like that in public and things quickly get interesting.
 
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