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Dear Fat People

Telling students what they can or cannot eat with government given money = acceptable

Telling grown adults what they can or cannot purchase with government given money = not acceptable

Makes sense.
 
That is definitely not an example of a 30 BMI body, which I keep hearing as so obese that it is disgusting by posters in this thread. This man's BMI is MUCH MUCH higher (50+? 60+?).

Yeah this guy is clearly far beyond a 30 bmi.
 
Telling students what they can or cannot eat with government given money = acceptable

Telling grown adults what they can or cannot purchase with government given money = not acceptable

Makes sense.

It's not government money, it's their money. Once it is dispensed to them, it is no longer the government's.

That said, I don't necessarily have a problem with setting some guidelines on how vouchers or quasi-money can be spent (e.g., food stamps), but if the assistance is in the form of $$ itself, then once the $$ transfers to the possession of beneficiary, it is their money, and they ought to be free to spend it how they please.

What I particularly abhorrent about the recent law in Kansas, and other conservative initiatives to dictate how public assistance can be spent, is that they are NOT motivated by prudent fiscal conservatism but by mean-spirited attacks on the poor, which are based in the worst kind of negative stereotypes (e.g., takers, welfare queens).

If, those pushing these laws had actual, good evidence that abuse of public assistance were systematic and rampant, then it's a different matter, but they don't. It's a solution to a non-existent problem, just like voter ID laws supported for other, more nefarious, reasons. It is a mean spirited attack on a vulnerable and politically weak segment of society. For that reason, I oppose them.

Yet the many of the same people are continually seeking to hand out ever more financial bene's to the wealthy based on the most rose colored stereotypes about the virtues of the "job creators."
 
So you don't think the people supplying the money should be allowed to have some say in what that money is used for? Cause personally, I don't want money from my taxes going to cigarettes or alcohol, or even junk food for that matter. I would like my money to be used wisely, so that the people it's going to are helped more than not. Maybe I'm just a prick who hates poor people though.
 
So you don't think the people supplying the money should be allowed to have some say in what that money is used for? Cause personally, I don't want money from my taxes going to cigarettes or alcohol, or even junk food for that matter. I would like my money to be used wisely, so that the people it's going to are helped more than not. Maybe I'm just a prick who hates poor people though.

I have my preferences about how they spend they spend public assistance. But, IF, the assistance is in the form of a direct cash transfer, than once it's transferred, it is their money, and my preferences are no longer relevant.

Again, if the transfer is in the form of a voucher or quasi-money, then I am not opposed to reasonable restrictions on how it can be used.

I understand very much the concern about welfare fraud/waste (hell, I used to be a card carrying conservative and wrote much of my dissertation listening to Rush Limbaugh), but I am not convinced it is a systematic problem. Sure, there are some people that abuse it, but some people abuse any system, gaming systems is hard wired into humans, it seems. The question to me is not whether some people are abusing the system (this should be taken as a given), but where the abuse is systematic. Show me evidence that it is, then we can talk. Meanwhile, I'll resist the temptation to engage in demeaning and stigmatizing the poor.

From a more philosophical position, I find curious the sentiment that IF someone is on public assistance, it requires them to live the most absolutely spartan type of lifestyle. They are poor, and they damned well better act it.

Where's the line? I'm not sure. Spending public assistance on cruise ships or other obvious luxury goods crosses it. I don't know were the line is, but I'm not willing to draw it at spartan penury.
 
It's not demeaning or stigmatizing people, it's about using my tax money efficiently. Using it to its best value. If I am to consider my tax money as an investment to better the quality of living for somebody, then I want to see the best return possible, and if we can help to get the best return, then we would be foolish not to.
 
So you don't think the people supplying the money should be allowed to have some say in what that money is used for? Cause personally, I don't want money from my taxes going to cigarettes or alcohol, or even junk food for that matter. I would like my money to be used wisely, so that the people it's going to are helped more than not. Maybe I'm just a prick who hates poor people though.

They aren't allowed to buy steak or seafood. Both are healthy food options.

So now I guess they can buy some hamburger and a box of hamburger helper if they want to splurge.

The amount of money they get is not enough to live it up on the regular so if they can squeeze in a steak or fish filet now and then I don't see the problem with that.

So to me the move is more to say that they shouldn't have nice things than anything else.
 
They aren't allowed to buy steak or seafood. Both are healthy food options.

So now I guess they can buy some hamburger and a box of hamburger helper if they want to splurge.

The amount of money they get is not enough to live it up on the regular so if they can squeeze in a steak or fish filet now and then I don't see the problem with that.

So to me the move is more to say that they shouldn't have nice things than anything else.

Oh I agree, if they wanna splurge and buy a steak, go for it. I don't think it would be a wise habit, but I would find that fine. I just don't want them buying cigs, booze, etc.
 
It's not demeaning or stigmatizing people, it's about using my tax money efficiently. Using it to its best value. If I am to consider my tax money as an investment to better the quality of living for somebody, then I want to see the best return possible, and if we can help to get the best return, then we would be foolish not to.

Really?? What is the evidence that the poor are systematically abusing public assistance?

What are the assumptions underlying these policies about the nature of poor people on public assistance?

You really don't believe that the policy and underlying assumptions reflect a highly negative stereotype of the poor?

REally??
 
Point out where I've accused the poor of taking advantage of the system. You're imagining things that aren't there.

These are just regulations to make sure our tax money is being spent wisely. I would do the same for every subsidy, make sure the money is being used for what it's supposed to be.

If people honestly get offended by that, then they have issues.
 
Point out where I've accused the poor of taking advantage of the system. You're imagining things that aren't there.

These are just regulations to make sure our tax money is being spent wisely. I would do the same for every subsidy, make sure the money is being used for what it's supposed to be.

If people honestly get offended by that, then they have issues.

I don't know that you have explicitly, but, if you support the laws, such as in Kansas, that restrict what poor people can do with public assistance (and based on base stereotypes of poor people), why would you support them, unless you believe that the poor are taking advantage of the system. If they are not, why are the laws necessary?

I'm not offended by any of that (one might argue that you are imagining things that aren't there).

As a general question, then, why are laws necessary to prevent a problem if the problem doesn't exist?

Also, you still haven't answered my question about what assumptions you think that the law in Kansas makes about the poor on public assistance.

Further, how are these assumptions not demeaning?
 
I don't know that you have explicitly, but, if you support the laws, such as in Kansas, that restrict what poor people can do with public assistance (and based on base stereotypes of poor people), why would you support them, unless you believe that the poor are taking advantage of the system. If they are not, why are the laws necessary?

I'm not offended by any of that (one might argue that you are imagining things that aren't there).

As a general question, then, why are laws necessary to prevent a problem if the problem doesn't exist?

Also, you still haven't answered my question about what assumptions you think that the law in Kansas makes about the poor on public assistance.

Further, how are these assumptions not demeaning?

1) Yes, you do know that I haven't because you're capable of reading.

2) I haven't mentioned anything about the Kansas law, which I know little about. I'm explaining what I would do.

3) I was not implying you were offended. I was talking about how you insinuated the people receiving assistance would be offended, and how I thought that was ridiculous.

4) You never previously asked me about the Kansas law. I can't answer a question that hasn't been asked.

5) Again, they aren't assumptions. They are merely aids to help make sure money is spent wisely. By your logic, minimum wage assumes every business owner is a greedy *******. Setting a maximum wage assumes every business owner is a greedy *******. Should they be offended by that? We can't not make laws because somebody might be offended.
 
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