Dennis Lindsey feels he owes Richard Jefferson a lot

[gregbroncs]

We haven't had "a young talented player that is superior to the old vet" - even Favors admitted he didn't deserve to play ahead of either Millsap or Al Jefferson, and he was closer to being a starter than either Kanter or Burks was. And has been pointed out already, Burks has been taking (as in "earning") minutes from the "old vets" as the season has progressed, and this year (unlike last year) his level of play has merited this. Kanter, on the other hand, has been poor most games.

Also, the anti-vet crowd is ignoring the fact we we gave both Biedrins and Rush a chance to produce on the court, but have benched them for their non-production, and thankfully JLIII has been given the hook in favor of Garrett. So it's not like being a vet is a golden ticket.

The message is we play players who deserve minutes, and we won't treat players like the Hornets treated Kaman after they traded for him, to use one example.

EDIT: Okay, it was just Millsap he mentioned specifically as being better than him:



Link to article

So you see no value in treating the players that are part of your future in a better way than the players that are leaving. Favors had to say that. It was the politically correct thing to say. Yet he produced on the court and was a part of the future while we were showcasing off those guys for their future at the expense of ours. Also I still maintain that Favors was better than them. Are you going to tell me that CJ, Howard, and Bell were better than Hayward? How about Beidrens better than Gobert? Foye better than Burks? So much better than he deserved **** loads of minutes.
.
Last night Jefferson got more minutes than Burks, Favors, Marvin, Burke and Kanter. Can you honestly make an argument that he is better than any of those players? Can you come up with a legitimate reason why he should ever play more than Favors with Favors not in foul trouble?
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Furthermore this year is not about wins but about development. So while Jefferson is not better than players he is playing instead of he is also not part of the future. Please give me a reasonable explanation why he is playing so damn much. Keep in mind a lot of the Corbin detractors predicted this would happen in the off season and were laughed at as being unreasonable. That there is no way Jefferson is going to get minutes over those guys in a year in which we are not trying to win just develop and get better. I was one of the ones saying that not even Corbin is that stupid. I'll admit I was wrong about that he is apparently that stupid.

 

[GVC]

Then we shall take the fight to him!


J/k I have too much respect to clutter up his page, even if it would generate traffic. vslice could use me as his whipping boy tho, that's sure enough.

I've been spending a lot less time on jazzfanz, and I suspect that trend will continue. A lot of the time, I present counterarguments to challenge the status quo and spark a decent discussion. Unfortunately, there are very few posters currently on jazzfanz who can handle challenges to the status quo or engage in an intelligent conversation. They treat opinions as fact and facts as opinion.

In particular, I don't consider myself a Ty Corbin fan. I do think it's worth considering the context surrounding his decisions (how many coaches play young players ahead of productive in-prime vets? Is Corbin developing as a coach? What's a reasonable amount of time to give a coach to develop? What is the relative importance of playing time, role, fit in a lineup, etc. in the development of young talent?). As I've stated repeatedly, I don't yet grasp the nuances of NBA offenses or defenses. In the past there were posters who could actually answer some of the questions/challenges I posed (vslice, billyshelby, others) and help me better understand the game. Take a look at the posts by The Thriller and Notes in this thread to see what this site has become. Angry and stupid. Oh well.

vslice isn't a Corbin fan. Some of the reasons are the same as those of posters on this site (hell, I thought Kanter was deserving of some of Al's minutes last season, and think some of RJ's minutes should be Burks' this season...). The difference is that he can back up his opinions with a good basketball argument. I especially like his blog post from December 14th (after the Jazz beat Denver), which details how the Jazz have altered how they use Favors in pick-and-roll defense. Essentially, he thinks Ty made the appropriate adjustment, but is concerned with Ty's inability to make those adjustments quickly enough. That is, if it takes a coach 20 games to make what should be a pretty simple and obvious adjustment (for a professional coach), that coach probably isn't going to make adjustments quickly enough to compete against quicker, more intelligent coaches.

Here's the last portion of that entry:

The Jazz have played good basketball in a large portion of their last 8 games – showing some encouraging improvement at both ends of the court. Offensively much of that improvement is due to the return of Trey Burke – who now gives Utah a playmaker at point guard that makes the game easier for all of his teammates.

Defensively, the adjustment in defending the pick&roll is a welcomed change but before we go give Ty Corbin a medal – let’s remember coaching isn’t simply figuring out one defensive tactic and then calling it a day. It’s about constant adjustments.


Look at how Greg Popovich has altered the Spurs’ identity from a post-up/kick-out to 3pt-shooters team in his 1998-99 championship team that had virtually no perimeter playmakers – to a more versatile inside-outside team in the mid-2000′s to today’s masterpiece that is a hallmark for the modern-day perimeter-oriented motion/screen-roll/floor-spacing/3pt-shooting ensemble many teams are trying to perfect.


Furthermore, look at Utah’s franchise where Jerry Sloan altered his system from the Stockton&Malone offense to fit the talents of the 2003-04 talent-devoid team and then back to more of the Stockton&Malone system with many tweaks to better suit the Deron/Boozer teams.


Each year coaches have a different team with players possessing different strengths and weaknesses. Taking 20 games (which is generous given you could argue it’s closer to 1-2 seasons) too long to adjust something obvious like pick&roll defense (that also includes flawed initial thinking) is certainly less than ideal for a professional basketball coach. Where 1 game can determine homecourt advantage, 5 games playoff potential and 10 games between meaningful basketball in March/April – perhaps the only thing saving Corbin now is Utah’s horrid start put them in such an embarrassing hole that low expectations have since plummeted to absurd levels where a single win regardless of opponent is now being hailed as a phenomenal coaching achievement.


To his credit, Corbin has adjusted Utah’s offense from the predominant low-post (Al-fense) centered around Al Jefferson to more of a versatile screen-roll system (which also magnifies the lack of diversity in last year’s strategy and foresight). He’s doing a better job utilizing timeouts to stop the flow and break offensive/defensive lulls and is being a little more creative with is lineups and rotations. Last night I thought he was smart to leave Jeremy Evans in until about the 4-min mark of the 4th-Qtr which gave Utah a nice lift on the boards.


If you thought Ty was a good coach from the beginning then you’re probably overjoyed (or stumbling around blindly – just kidding but not really) after the past couple games. If you thought he’s been a poor coach for much of his first 2 1/2 seasons then the start to this season probably has cemented that belief. If you were on the fence, it’s unlikely a 2-game win streak or the recent 4-game slide set amidst the backdrop of a 6-19 season is enough to sway you either way. As of today, Ty Corbin is still a lame duck coach without a contract extending past this season – and I think that fact speaks loudest of all.

LINK

 

[franklin]

Gregbroncs, are you still crying about raw rookies not getting playing time they didn't deserve? How much longer until you move on? SMH @ this soccer mom mentality

 

[HeavenHarris]

wat u know bout dem soccer milfs franklin bro?

 

[fishonjazz]

wat u know bout dem soccer milfs franklin bro?

These are the types of posts I need to just stick with from now on.

There was a time when we could actually talk about what we are seeing on the court but now it seems that if I say that I don't like jefferson getting more minutes than burks or something then someone will tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about and throw some stats at me to show me that corbin is making the right decisions each and everytime in every game rather than actually considering what I have to say might have some validity. (Same goes for kanter)

 

[HeavenHarris]

HH been on da #FreeBurks bandwagon since day 1 tbh

 

[franklin]

I've been spending a lot less time on jazzfanz, and I suspect that trend will continue. A lot of the time, I present counterarguments to challenge the status quo and spark a decent discussion. Unfortunately, there are very few posters currently on jazzfanz who can handle challenges to the status quo or engage in an intelligent conversation. They treat opinions as fact and facts as opinion.

In particular, I don't consider myself a Ty Corbin fan. I do think it's worth considering the context surrounding his decisions (how many coaches play young players ahead of productive in-prime vets? Is Corbin developing as a coach? What's a reasonable amount of time to give a coach to develop? What is the relative importance of playing time, role, fit in a lineup, etc. in the development of young talent?). As I've stated repeatedly, I don't yet grasp the nuances of NBA offenses or defenses. In the past there were posters who could actually answer some of the questions/challenges I posed (vslice, billyshelby, others) and help me better understand the game. Take a look at the posts by The Thriller and Notes in this thread to see what this site has become. Angry and stupid. Oh well.

vslice isn't a Corbin fan. Some of the reasons are the same as those of posters on this site (hell, I thought Kanter was deserving of some of Al's minutes last season, and think some of RJ's minutes should be Burks' this season...). The difference is that he can back up his opinions with a good basketball argument. I especially like his blog post from December 14th (after the Jazz beat Denver), which details how the Jazz have altered how they use Favors in pick-and-roll defense. Essentially, he thinks Ty made the appropriate adjustment, but is concerned with Ty's inability to make those adjustments quickly enough. That is, if it takes a coach 20 games to make what should be a pretty simple and obvious adjustment (for a professional coach), that coach probably isn't going to make adjustments quickly enough to compete against quicker, more intelligent coaches.

Here's the last portion of that entry:



LINK

I've read a lot of the guy's site and frankly it's a bunch of long winded cherry picking stabs at Corbin. He didn't say anything in the paragraphs you linked, other than claiming Corbin didn't change pnr quick enough from one unspecified to another unspecified approach (I'd guess his beef was flashing, but doesn't acknowledge that when Tinsley/JLIII are your defending pg's you have no chance defending the pnr with other styles). The rambling appeal to authorities' offenses given in the middle of a critique of Corbin's defensive adjustments, and followed by slamming Corbin for bending his offense to his talent right after crediting Sloan and Pop.... It's all thinly veiled Corbin hate. But yeah, he can pick out a play when he wants to.

He had a post a few weeks back pointing out the double pin down loop, then claimed the Jazz don't use it anymore. This, of course, is nonsense. He also failed to note how Corbin has modified the play for the talent on court and is getting more paint and 3 out of it by swinging the weakside man up top instead of crossing underneath.

There's plenty to miss seeing on court when you start with an agenda of proving you know more than Coach, and watching games with baited breath like the political hacks do.

 

[franklin]

These are the types of posts I need to just stick with from now on.

There was a time when we could actually talk about what we are seeing on the court but now it seems that if I say that I don't like jefferson getting more minutes than burks or something then someone will tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about and throw some stats at me to show me that corbin is making the right decisions each and everytime in every game rather than actually considering what I have to say might have some validity. (Same goes for kanter)

Crying wolf?

What do you expect when you post like a robot? Also, don't think your heavy GVC trolling has gone unnoticed by others.

 

[fishonjazz]

Crying wolf?

What do you expect when you post like a robot? Also, don't think your heavy GVC trolling has gone unnoticed by others.

Just sayin its goes both ways..... gvc and yourself claim that a lot of poster just post the same old stuff robitically against corbin which is pretty true, but I never see you or gvc bend on your stance in a discussion no matter what the other side presents.

 

[GVC]

I've read a lot of the guy's site and frankly it's a bunch of long winded cherry picking stabs at Corbin. He didn't say anything in the paragraphs you linked, other than claiming Corbin didn't change pnr quick enough from one unspecified to another unspecified approach.

The paragraphs quoted summarize his points. The whole post includes both pictures and video, with the defensive strategies clearly specified. Basically, you're always better off having Favors drop on the pick-and-roll, allowing your wing players to stay home more, Favors to challenge more shots at the rim, while giving up mid-range jumpers to the guard initiating the play than having Favors try to recover from 25 feet out, which often resulted in layups and open corner 3s. I think it's pretty compelling. Favors is very good at taking up space, and making life difficult for both the guard and the roll man when he's in the paint.

I agree to a point that he doesn't always consider counterarguments about youth development, minutes or lineup choices (or about the actual talent level of the young players on the team), although to his credit he does notice improvements in Ty's use of timeouts, lineups and talent-specific strategy. It's too bad he's been driven away from this site (is he on some other Jazz message board I don;t know about?), as message boards seem to be better for discussion than blogs (at their best, anyway).

 

[GVC]

but I never see you or gvc bend on your stance in a discussion no matter what the other side presents.

Because they don't present anything. The whole argument is "the young guys should all play 35+ minutes, nothing else matters, the end". How do you have a discussion with that?

 

[Coach Ellis]

I've been a football coach for 15 years and I'll readily admit that I understand the nuances of that sport better than I do basketball. But I also know that there's fundamental aspects of coaching that are universal. Not every coach is capable of teaching players and/or putting them in the right position to succeed. Some have it. Some don't.

I had a team that I coached years ago that had an even split of young players and older (veteran) players. I advocated at the time that we needed to play several of the younger players more because they had more talent. We did, and it took us the whole season to figure out what they were best at, where they should be playing and how well they fit together. It was a tough season for us. We went 3-3-1 and missed the playoffs. But they got valuable experience AND we learned more about them and their strengths. The next season, that same group of boys came back as leaders for our team. We added players to compliment them, made changes to our offense and defense to match their strengths and they played with chemistry, intelligence and confidence that they didn't have the year before. They went undefeated that next season. A perfect 10-0, and scored more TDs than the rest of our league combined.

That first year was difficult, because we knew we had the talent but they needed to take their lumps and gain the experience on the field to be able to dominate how they did the following season. They learned from playing, from competing every game and (yes) from losing. All of those things helped them to be better players and a better team. Right now, how I felt about that young group of boys is exactly how I feel about our Utah Jazz. This is a good year to take your lumps and learn as much as you can about this team and these players. I believe that really committing to that process will be painful and hard to stomach at times. And then there's other times that they will totally validate your faith in them. Those moments are what you build on for the future.