Deron Williams-From Hero to Zero
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I agree with Cy. Deron didn't do anything to Sloan. As a hall of fame coach, Sloan had all the power in that relationship. He could have dealt with Deron in countless ways. Instead Sloan quit. Blaming Deron for it is moronic.
RJF
Well-Known Member
He tried to discipline Deron but KOC and Greg Miller wouldn't let him. How is this fact forgotten/dismissed?
[MENTION=3123]Cappy_Smurf[/MENTION] is a card carrying member of the neg bitch patrol. Ask others. [MENTION=295]RJF[/MENTION] [MENTION=40]Siro[/MENTION] are members too they have little man syndrome an need thought control.
I think DWill and Sloan clearly had some rifts, and DWill was one of the main reasons Jerry quit when he did, like he did. But I think the reason the Jazz traded him was because they didn't want to give him a $100M max deal, and because they had the opportunity to ship him to a desperate Nets franchise and get a good return. The Jazz sold high on DWill. It was a smart, dis-impassioned move the front office.
RJF
Well-Known Member
IIRC, Sloan wanted to suspend him and was told no(this was after more than one locker room blowup between the two). Said he didn't feel like he had support from the organization and was going to hang it up. Met for hours with KOC, the Miller's(Greg and Gail) so they could try to talk him out of it, to no avail. Rest is history.
RJF
Well-Known Member
Nowhere did I say benching.
Sooooo pick up Deron at the deadline during the Mavs fire sale?
But it's everyone's fault besides the guy who outright quit on the team?
It was a great move, just sad KOC couldn't/wouldn't follow it up by dealing Jefferson.
FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
it's a little hard to fathom people holding a grudge given that it's 5 years on, that DWill still lives in Utah, and that he's obviously older & matured and has been nothing but gracious and complimentary to both the Jazz and Jerry Sloan in the last year or two. It's kindof embarrassing that petty minded small man syndrome fans are still booing him. Ffs just move and be happy and stop the ridiculous booing
I agree that booing is lame unless it involves horrible officiating. And I hear what you're saying about Deron maturing. And his conciliatory tone should be taken into account. And let's be honest, the guy was so competitive it probably rendered him incapable of putting everything into context, especially for a young guy who was one of the best players in the NBA. But I still hold him primarily accountable for putting Jerry Sloan into that position.
And I'm still pissed, damnit!
(not really, but hey it's something to talk about)
FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
I'm still bitter and twisted about Dick Bavetta and MJ .. my wife still likes to remind me for fun from time to time
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I have to disagree. Read the reports from what had happened. Deron stopped running Sloan's plays. There were multiple reports claiming Sloan wanted to discipline Deron. But old man Miller had passed on and Greggy Boy didn't have Sloan's back. KOC refused to let Sloan take any action. So Sloan quit after his meeting with KOC, when he had finally had enough. That's not my fantastical story (certain poster who will attack me for this post). You can go back to the DN and Trib and read what others wrote.But maybe they made that all up. I guess that's possible.
But I don't think Deron was traded because of that. You can read the articles about his agent meeting several times with KOC. Utah wanted to give him the max. But Deron refused to guarantee he would re-sign with Utah. He said he wanted to be a free agent. So when the opportunity arose, KOC pulled the trigger (rather than risk losing a star for nothing). I even remember KOC, in a later conversation, saying he was approached about a different player and then asked if Brooklyn would be interested in anyone else on the roster. Led them right into the Deron trade talks without ever "shopping" Deron.
Though I think he was a jerk, I hold no ill will for Deron wanting to leave. He was on board with the Jefferson acquisition. Remember him telling Big Al he was going to make him an all-star? Deron also said he was going to get others to come to Utah. But no one apparently wanted to. So yea, I can see why he wanted to be a FA and leave. The trade was a huge win for both parties.
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I dislike Kanter a lot more than D-Will.
Kanter admitted to not playing hard, and obviously put his own welfare above the team's to make himself look good (he had what, 1 assist in his last 500 minutes with the Jazz or something?). Moreover, he talked crap about Utah after leaving.
D-Will still cares about Utah since he still has a house here. He's said good stuff about the Jazz after leaving. I don't think he ever stopped trying to win. It's unfortunate that he couldn't maturely handle a difference in philosophy between himself and Sloan. I don't think Miller, KOC, Sloan, or D-Will were blame-free in that situation.
I won't say D-Will didn't do anything wrong, but I think it was a product of frustration, whereas with Kanter it was selfishness and spite. And hey, we got something useful from Deron's trade, whereas for Kanter we didn't get jack.
Kanter admitted to not playing hard, and obviously put his own welfare above the team's to make himself look good (he had what, 1 assist in his last 500 minutes with the Jazz or something?). Moreover, he talked crap about Utah after leaving.
D-Will still cares about Utah since he still has a house here. He's said good stuff about the Jazz after leaving. I don't think he ever stopped trying to win. It's unfortunate that he couldn't maturely handle a difference in philosophy between himself and Sloan. I don't think Miller, KOC, Sloan, or D-Will were blame-free in that situation.
I won't say D-Will didn't do anything wrong, but I think it was a product of frustration, whereas with Kanter it was selfishness and spite. And hey, we got something useful from Deron's trade, whereas for Kanter we didn't get jack.
Isaiah 1:13
Well-Known Member
I can't even believe you remembered and brought up Bavetta. Stern's #1 henchman, that guy was absolutely the dirtiest official that ever wore stripes in the NBA IMO. What he pulled off in the 97 (my bad, 98) NBA finals, particularly game six (the flu game), was probably the worst game fixing ever perpetrated in a championship series.
And back on topic. I gotta say that I appreciate you guys and your opinions and appreciate the fact that everybody's not lockstep zombies around here. However you want to look at it though, our glory years were behind us and DWill's histrionics only hastened the end to a bad chapter in Utah Jazz Basketball. I think that Sloan was frustrated with what he had to work with and was probably looking for a way out anyway. In my mind, not fulfilling his contract and walking out like he did midseason was as much of an affront to the organization as Williams' histrionics anyway. Who does that? I can't think of another NBA coach that has walked out on a team under contract like that. (I mean J. Kidd did that to the Nets, but that was another story...actually more despicable.)
Anyway, Williams career as an elite point guard was short-lived and some might argue that he was already slipping when we pulled off the New Jersey heist. I do believe that he's always struggled with his weight which may have contributed to the injury nightmare he became in New Jersey/Brooklyn. And we got Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Enis Kanter (should have been Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson or Tristan Thompson) and 1/2 of Trey Burke (should have been Gorgui Dieng or Mason Plumlee). Actually, Williams is apparently much more hated in Brooklyn than he ever was here: https://www.netsdaily.com/2016/2/23...he-deron-williams-trade-still-haunts-the-nets.
In a way I feel a bit sorry for Deron much the way I feel sorry for a guy like Greg Oden (injury prone) or even somebody like Jimmer Fredette (way undersized shooting guard) or Adam Morrison (diabetic). Only in a sports sense as all of these guys have reached greater heights than I have or will but then came plummeting down faster than they went up. DWill though vilified here and in Brooklyn, still has a career and made an atrocious amount of loot. I guess the sad part is that he was never able to deliver on the promise that many of us thought he possessed.
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FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
The worst one Bavetta called was when he waived off Howard Eisley's (?) 3 pointer in the last finals game i think .. called that he released it after the shot clock went off. It wasn't even close, the ball was practically halfway to the basket when the shot clock expired. That was even worse than the push off
Isaiah 1:13
Well-Known Member
Yep same game 98 actually (the famous Jordan flu game), but you forgot the allowed basket by Ron Harper that came after the shot clock expired.