Disappointments So Far This Season

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is the disappointments thread so I'm listing the things I'm disappointed in(not saying there aren't things Quin has done well). I'm not saying Quin has it easy this season. Definitely not. He has a hell of hill to climb, but he's not helping himself right now. Either he needs to give the ball to Rubio and let him run the team in a more traditional PG role or we need Rubio to make opponents guard him and not go under every screen and sag off of him and clog the paint. I don't see a scenario where opponents will decide to guard Rubio with his efficiency shooting the ball.

BTW, Rubio is currently shooting 67% from 10 to 16 feet and 54% from 16 to 3p line. That's 40% of his shots. His efficiency is going to get even worse once this mid-range shooting regresses.

There is a real issue when you have a non-shooters running the pnr. Neither Gobert nor Rubio can punish opponents from distance consistently. There is a reason why Rubio is a turnover machine... it's not because he's a bad passer. It's because everyone goes under the screens and the bigs drop off in the paint to stop Gobert's roll and crowd the paint and there are a ton of hands and legs in the way of those passes. Rubio has turned the ball over on 33(THIRTY THREE!!!!!!)% of his PnRs. Most of those are him trying to pass to a crowded Gobert.

Ah... I feel ya then... since this is a place of negativity I understand.

You hit the nail on the head... almost every team has a 3 point shooter... some 2 at the PF and C. Would open up some stuff for sure and because of the way we create it is a delicate balance.

Looking at Ricky's Ast./Turn. ratio it is 1.4... career 3... that is huge.

I think we need to run Jonas at the 4 more and see what it looks like with a stretch 4. Cut Udoh's minutes for a little while and let Favs pick up the backup C minutes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm curious about having Ricky AND Bledsoe. Hood can start at 3 or come off the bench (the latter is looking more-and-more like his best option, IMO. The dude just hasn't been up for the physical grind of being a go-to guy against the NBA's best).

I'm in the Hood should be traded camp. Moving him to the bench would kill his trade value and the dude is not mentally strong... not sure he will fight through it.

I think NO would give a first for him... maybe unprotected or with very limited protections. I think other teams would give up good pieces too.

Rod is a good player... not great and I don't want him on his next contract... inconsistency will plague his career between injuries and streaky shooting.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ah... I feel ya then... since this is a place of negativity I understand.

You hit the nail on the head... almost every team has a 3 point shooter... some 2 at the PF and C. Would open up some stuff for sure and because of the way we create it is a delicate balance.

Looking at Ricky's Ast./Turn. ratio it is 1.4... career 3... that is huge.

I think we need to run Jonas at the 4 more and see what it looks like with a stretch 4. Cut Udoh's minutes for a little while and let Favs pick up the backup C minutes.

To elaborate a bit more... Ricky Rudy PnR is our "go to scorer" teams can straight neuter it by pulling in a third player from the wing or PF. We swing to open man... Favs, Hood, or Ingles... teams can close hard (or not at all off Favs) and because those guys aren't big threats then the initial action is blown up... less time on the shot clock and not any real individual creators on the floor.

 

[NAOS]

To elaborate a bit more... Ricky Rudy PnR is our "go to scorer" teams can straight neuter it by pulling in a third player from the wing or PF. We swing to open man... Favs, Hood, or Ingles... teams can close hard (or not at all off Favs) and because those guys aren't big threats then the initial action is blown up... less time on the shot clock and not any real individual creators on the floor.

everyone should make this their sig. It's easily the biggest story of the year so far.

 

[8]

Defensive effort, intensity, and focus.

This was a low-level offensive team on paper team heading into the season. This team needs to accept the fact that the way to play to their highest potential is to max out on defense and own the glass all game every game.

They likely also need to accept their likely fate as the slowest paced team in the NBA, and not worry about what people like Pop say. The Uber slow-paced Jazz that ‘need to play faster’ split with the Spurs last season anyway and won a 1st round playoff matchup. They need to get better at taking advantage of opportunities to run and get easy shots most definitely, but it shouldn’t come at the expense of the team strengths and game plan, and most definitely shouldn’t be a reaction to the FOMO or desiring to be one of the cool kids. They need to accept their identity as the antithesis of the modern NBA.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Outside of rebounding Favs has not really disappointed. His blocked shots are down, but he's not near the basket... more teams are moving to perimeter 4s and he is covering them well... tough to block shots when you are chasing Carmelo, Ryan Anderson, Blake Griffin, etc on the perimeter.

Rebounding numbers are somewhat pointless. I think Favor's could rebound better but I've been happy that he consistently boxes his man out, it at least someone out. If Gobert started doing the same instead of relying on his height to rebound our team rebounds would go up but Goberts might go down slightly.

Often the person who properly boxes out isn't the guy to get the rebound.

 

[Ron Mexico]

1. Exum going down, I hope he plays some this year.

2. I'm disappointed that fans are jumping off the bandwagon already. Last year a bunch of the same people jumped off when we had a losing record at 7 wins 8 losses. It took that team time to cement and get going, partially due to injuries. This years team is going to take even longer, especially because our offense is timing based and different for a lot of our new players.

3. Hood's health again. I still think he will get going and be our leading scorer but I am still probably leaning towards trading him if they can find a good player in return. Although I guess I feel anyone on our team could be traded depending on who comes back, except Gobert and Mitchell.

4. Favors not being utilized a little more. Combined with him not putting in the hustle sometimes and Snyder not letting him crash the boards in offense.

5. Gobert not putting in as much effort and isn't boxing out or screening as hard.

6. Burks not fitting in. I thought he would figure it out by now a little better. He doesn't understand the defense or offense sets still.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm in the Hood should be traded camp. Moving him to the bench would kill his trade value and the dude is not mentally strong... not sure he will fight through it.

I think NO would give a first for him... maybe unprotected or with very limited protections. I think other teams would give up good pieces too.

Rod is a good player... not great and I don't want him on his next contract... inconsistency will plague his career between injuries and streaky shooting.

Why would NO trade for a RFA who is going to get paid (at least to a certain degree)? They can barely afford their team as is.

Only way I see NOLA giving us a first rounder (besides, they can't even trade this year's first iirc because they traded last years) is if we take back Solomon Hill or Asik and give up Hood.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also, to the trade Hood crowd, I think it's likely, especially if he continues his average play, that the Jazz get him on a bargain contract and his value goes up in the following years.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why would NO trade for a RFA who is going to get paid (at least to a certain degree)? They can barely afford their team as is.

Only way I see NOLA giving us a first rounder (besides, they can't even trade this year's first iirc because they traded last years) is if we take back Solomon Hill or Asik and give up Hood.

Because they need wings that are cheap and have a GM who may get fired. Not touching those contracts.

They also may view it as a late first rounder because they think their team is better than it is.

The Asik deal may come off the cap for medical reasons but they cant sign anyone because they don't have space... but they could have space to sign Hood and stay under the LT.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also, to the trade Hood crowd, I think it's likely, especially if he continues his average play, that the Jazz get him on a bargain contract and his value goes up in the following years.

If he doesn't play up to a big contract his deal would not be a bargain... it would be lower than his current or prior perceived value.

So there is a chance we get him at a fair price... there is also a chance someone pays him more than we'd want to.

I think that potentially his perceived value is higher than his true value. If we couldn't get a good first or a piece that has more potential I'd keep him but I'd be kicking some tires right now.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Because they need wings that are cheap and have a GM who may get fired. Not touching those contracts.

They also may view it as a late first rounder because they think their team is better than it is.

The Asik deal may come off the cap for medical reasons but they cant sign anyone because they don't have space... but they could have space to sign Hood and stay under the LT.

If they lose Cousins, yeah. But why are they trading an unprotected pick for Hood? It would have to be the 2019 pick. They couldn't keep Hood and Cousins (the NOLA ownership isnt willing to go into the LT). Why are the Jazz just giving away Hood for a pick in 2019 that would be protected?

If the Jazz ever actually trade Hood, I see it being for vets over a future draft pick.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If he doesn't play up to a big contract his deal would not be a bargain... it would be lower than his current or prior perceived value.

So there is a chance we get him at a fair price... there is also a chance someone pays him more than we'd want to.

I think that potentially his perceived value is higher than his true value. If we couldn't get a good first or a piece that has more potential I'd keep him but I'd be kicking some tires right now.

No, it could be a bargain. Just look at the jump Hayward made from year 4 to year 5. Next free agency is super tight and teams may not even be offering him competitive contracts.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If they lose Cousins, yeah. But why are they trading an unprotected pick for Hood? It would have to be the 2019 pick. They couldn't keep Hood and Cousins (the NOLA ownership isnt willing to go into the LT). Why are the Jazz just giving away Hood for a pick in 2019 that would be protected?

If the Jazz ever actually trade Hood, I see it being for vets over a future draft pick.

It wouldn't have to be a 2019 first rounder.. why?

Not saying they would for sure do it (I have no clue) but they are desperate for wing help and own all their own picks right now... GM has been on the hotseat and they have some FA issues looming.

I think we already have enough vets... unless a borderline all-star level vet came up I'd rather go the future pick route.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It wouldn't have to be a 2019 first rounder.. why?

Not saying they would for sure do it (I have no clue) but they are desperate for wing help and own all their own picks right now... GM has been on the hotseat and they have some FA issues looming.

I think we already have enough vets... unless a borderline all-star level vet came up I'd rather go the future pick route.

Uhh, there is a rule you can't trade back to back 1st round picks, right?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No, it could be a bargain. Just look at the jump Hayward made from year 4 to year 5. Next free agency is super tight and teams may not even be offering him competitive contracts.

Wait so we are likely to get him on a bargain deal but NO couldn't afford him next year?

I don't think Hood has a jump in him... to be effective he has to shoot 40-45% from three on a good amount of attempts. His shot is good but streaky as hell. He won't be a paint scorer and his FT rate won't go up in a meaningful way. I'm not sure he can stay on the court long enough to be really consistent. I certainly don't think he has anything near what Hayward had in him. They are just so different.

I think his fair value is around 15M per year based on the market next year and what I'm seeing so far. What is the lowest amount per year you think he'd settle for? I feel the risk that he might get slightly overpaid is greater than we get him for a "bargain"... we may get him at a slightly lower number but it will be because that is what he earned and he isn't as valuable as we may think.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Uhh, there is a rule you can't trade back to back 1st round picks, right?

Uhhh... they own all their picks going forward right? The rule only applies prospectively.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I thought Rubio would be feeding Gobert at the rim much easier than this. However, it's the threat of Rubio feeding Gobert at the rim that seems to be opening up opportunities for everyone else. Gobert barely has space to put his feet with the defenders around him in the paint.

Hood should be taking his time and knocking down shots. He's pressing a bit. I don't think he's best as a primary scoring option. He's not a guy that adjusts to what the defense gives him. He's a guy who wants to do his own thing and get to his spots. Hood should be a secondary option on offense. Mitchell is more versatile and improvises better than Hood does.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

To elaborate a bit more... Ricky Rudy PnR is our "go to scorer" teams can straight neuter it by pulling in a third player from the wing or PF. We swing to open man... Favs, Hood, or Ingles... teams can close hard (or not at all off Favs) and because those guys aren't big threats then the initial action is blown up... less time on the shot clock and not any real individual creators on the floor.

Yep. This is why plan B right now is to give the ball to Mitchell and clear out.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Oh, Favors rebounding is disappointing. He's not making the effort he used to make. He's being less assertive on the boards.