That makes more sense.
DL out… kinda?
- Thread starter Ineptimusprime
- Start date
That makes more sense.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I agree. Feel like Ainge is mostly smoke and mirrors, who was in the right place at the right time. Hate to see how he’d tear it down to build it back up and screw it up like he did in Boston.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Good point. Plus he himself is the exact player that the Jazz is desperately missing on the roster for years. So he knew what we need and will at least try taking actions to get us one.
Handlogten's Heros
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Ainge's drafting record late first has been spotty/bad... he does deserve credit for Tatum over Fultz (and getting a good pick for his trouble). Fultz was regarded as the consensus #1 in that draft.
The Brown selection was also very good... That was not a no-brainer pick.
The Kyrie trade was kind of a heist... it turns out that Irving was not a guy you should depend on... but he did well there.
I see the general idea behind most of Ainge's moves. Trying to make sense of the current front office moves has been tough the last year. I'm cool with failure if the idea or process behind it was sound. GM's don't hit on every pick... Massai reached for Bruno Caboculo for hell's sakes. I just need it to make some sense... I hated the Udoka pick because I had seen that movie before. If we were going to sign a minimum vet FA center and hope Udoka was ready this year... then fine. I knew we'd pay for a better backup and the Favs smoke was already in the air. Even then I guess I'd be fine with those moves if we had solved the perimeter defensive needs we had... we didn't really even try. Just really weird and long term it really hurt our planning. Terrible asset management... and these were the easier things to handle imo.
nothingbutnet
Well-Known Member
The Celtics have made the conference finals 3 out of the last 5 years. That’s father than we have gone since 2007 (14 years). Just something to remember. Judging based off the comments you’d think the Celtics have been a lottery team.
Ainge’s biggest problem was not converting assets into a star like Davis/Harden when he had the chance.
Ainge’s biggest problem was not converting assets into a star like Davis/Harden when he had the chance.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Ainge just had that tunnel vision when hes doing every trade so he lost track of the big picture. All he cares about is winning every trade even though those trade returns make zero sense for his team.
Like trading for Tatum is a good deal in itself, but not very constructive for his team when he's already got Brown and Hayward on the roster. That's before Hayward was hurt too. If Hayward didn't get hurt, it would be Tatum or Brown spending most of their season on the bench.
Trading Thomas for Irving was also a good deal, but Irving is much less of a playmaker and more of a ballhog. If you are a superstar oriented franchise trying to win now like this year's Nets, it would've made sense. But Celtics wasn't that team. How does watching Kyrie iso on every possession help the development of Tatum and Brown? Then he simply repeated that mistake by going for Kemba instead of a true playmaker willing to share the ball.
What that Celtics team needed also was a big man and Ainge's done little to nothing to address their weakness at the 4/5 spot. Like signing Kanter from Portland, only to give him back one season later......
Seems to me he's just a more aggressive version of DL who would do all he could to win you a trade. But besides that, he's pretty clueless on how to properly build his team towards the next step.
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It’s the right time. DL has done a great job and deserves credit. There are some teams that have done better in the last 9 years, but not many that are in similar market sizes and started with the same lack of assets.
With exceptions in Miami and San Antonio, it is a bit of a new normal for one GM to build a foundation and then another GM to come in and take the team to the next level. Meyers in GS, Ujiri in Toronto, Pelinka in LA. If Phoenix ends up winning a championship you can add Jones to that list as well. None of those GMs started the championship build, but each made key moves/roster changes that elevated the team to championship level.
At a certain point you just become too attached to your own players (eg, Exum, Favors, Ingles contracts/extensions) and it impacts your judgment. A fresh set of eyes can work wonders.
With exceptions in Miami and San Antonio, it is a bit of a new normal for one GM to build a foundation and then another GM to come in and take the team to the next level. Meyers in GS, Ujiri in Toronto, Pelinka in LA. If Phoenix ends up winning a championship you can add Jones to that list as well. None of those GMs started the championship build, but each made key moves/roster changes that elevated the team to championship level.
At a certain point you just become too attached to your own players (eg, Exum, Favors, Ingles contracts/extensions) and it impacts your judgment. A fresh set of eyes can work wonders.
This is a great point and fits the current situation for the Jazz to a “T”. I know it’s supposed to be a cold hearted business but it’s not uncommon for GM’s to grow overly attached to “their guys” which almost always leads to them overvaluing these players when it comes time to make moves. Hell, is Jazz fans do this all the time, myself included.
The Jazz are on a precipice right now and which side they come down on is gonna come down to identifying the right guys to move. For all the good DL has done, I think it’s fair to say that he officially got to the point in which he was gonna be reluctant to make some pretty tough moves that are looming. It’s a tough job man. Imagine being the guy that trades Joe Ingles away from the Utah Jazz, or sends Favors packing after the return love fest that happened just this offseason.
Props to Ryan Smith for recognizing it. So far, our new owner seems to always know when to push the right button. We’ll see if that can continue when he chooses DL’s replacement.
Some people have a hard time admitting their baby is ugly. I see it in management a lot, with either processes, people, or entire operations. Sometimes the top guy needs to go so someone else can slay the sacred cow and get things back on track again. Look at Exum. I'm shocked he finally agreed to move him, frankly. No one understood why he kept throwing money at him, but probably to try to salvage the 2nd highest pick in franchise history so he didn't look as bad for it, when he should have just admitted it was a **** pick and moved on years before he did. Of course I'm ok with the timing because it got us Clarkson, which is easily the most lop-sided trade in our favor in franchise history. But who knows what else we could have done if we had let Exum walk when his contract ended before like we should have.
Hornacekamania
Well-Known Member
A few months ago I read that book about the Sixers rebuild and they had a story about when had Exum's tryout. Basically, he got torched by a scrub they brought in for the workout.
416Klawzz
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be surprised, Aussie fans would beg to differ. Oni smoked his scrub ***
I hope we hire Shane Battier. I think Wade has the inside track there so it is pretty realistic.
If this is the main critique of DL then he had an amazing career lmfao.
It's hilarious to me that Exum is brought up the most as DL's black mark when it's not even close. It's Kanter/Burks/Burke/The dedication to Favors.
Not sure Exum is even in the top 10 of his bad moves. It was the most logical decision at teh time and one most GM's would have made. He salvaged it as well as any GM could.
Not sure Exum is even in the top 10 of his bad moves. It was the most logical decision at teh time and one most GM's would have made. He salvaged it as well as any GM could.
I agree. Exum was a no-brainer pick at 5. Almost everyone thought he was going top-4.
Like, how many years did Utah waste with Favors at the 4 instead of trying to aggressively move on? That's probably the most damning thing about DL's tenure. Everything else is kind of just a mistake that makes sense. Sometimes you evaluate prospects wrong. No one is perfect and he nailed a ton of them. But to stick with two center lineups for so long is another thing.