Do you believe in the afterlife?

[TroutBum]

Mankind wants to believe in miracles and magic. If there were truly a god and it worked its magic through science then men would have a hope of surpassing him. Without a father role who punishes and rewards justly, religion falls.

I disagree. As a father, I really hope and pray that my children will be better than me in every way. I can't speak for anybody else's God, but the God I believe in would love to see me surpass him on every level of the Tower. Just because I believe this doesn't mean that a God or Father will somehow lose their "father role". IMO, no matter how far we progress, we will never actually be 100% above them for all sorts of reasons, but to think that a father or God wouldn't want his children to become better than him is silly.

 

[MVP]

While I think he was just giving a cop out, I can see how he would think that my opinion was rubbish as well. I dig it and retract my previous insult to AK.

I don't think it is rubbish at all. I look very simply at this - one opinion is based on scientific evidence, other based on faith. It is ok to chose which one suits you more. It is your choice, I respect it and I actually am a bit jealous - you will die with hope that you will live again, while I will die believing it is the end.

 

[LogGrad98]

+

=

magic

 

[Hekate]

I disagree. As a father, I really hope and pray that my children will be better than me in every way. I can't speak for anybody else's God, but the God I believe in would love to see me surpass him on every level of the Tower.

So you are deist. Then we are just talking about a man who believes in his own religion. I still think for a religion to work for a mass a god needs to be supreme.

 

[LogGrad98]

So you are deist. Then we are just talking about a man who believes in his own religion. I still think for a religion to work for a mass a god needs to be supreme.

Depends on your definition of supreme. The Spanish had the power to more or less wipe out the Aztecs/Mayans, and did so with a mysterious disease, like magic or a curse. Was that godlike power? Was that supreme? If the ability to kill your entire civilization isn't supreme, not sure what is.

 

[TroutBum]

I don't think it is rubbish at all. I look very simply at this - one opinion is based on scientific evidence, other based on faith. It is ok to chose which one suits you more. It is your choice, I respect it and I actually am a bit jealous - you will die with hope that you will live again, while I will die believing it is the end.

Alright, fair enough I suppose. However, I have always had a hard time with the "faith" aspect of religion, even though I feel like I have an abundance of it. Over the last few years, however, I have taken a much greater interest in some of the more bizarre scientific theories that are out there, because they actually seem to solidify my faith with possible and rational explanations. The Multiverse is one great example, along with different dimensions of time and space. If you take aspects of those particular theories, some of the wilder stuff of Mormon doctrine starts to click -- at least for me. Maybe I'm just that desperate that I'll cling to anything, but either way, it is refreshing and exciting to have new things to think about and ponder.

So you are deist. Then we are just talking about a man who believes in his own religion. I still think for a religion to work for a mass a god needs to be supreme.

Hmmm, I've never been called that before. FWIW, I don't believe in my own religion, but I have my own personal feelings about my creator.

 

[Hekate]

Depends on your definition of supreme. The Spanish had the power to more or less wipe out the Aztecs/Mayans, and did so with a mysterious disease, like magic or a curse. Was that godlike power? Was that supreme? If the ability to kill your entire civilization isn't supreme, not sure what is.

Supreme may be a relative thing. Yes, they had the power to more or less wipe out a civilization but were they omni-potent? No. If it was a godlike power wouldn't be world run by The spanish? The god E.J Wells is talking may have the power to kill all the men but does he do that? If the god works through science then it has a chance to be surpassed and it wants that. If mankind surpassed god than the god wouldn't be supreme anymore.

 

[8]

Same like gods, unicorns, fairies, Loch Ness monster, Ogopogo, etc.. Until it is not proven I can't believe in it.

A Utah Jazz championship?

 

[LogGrad98]

Supreme may be a relative thing. Yes, they had the power to more or less wipe out a civilization but were they omni-potent? No. If it was a godlike power wouldn't be world run by The spanish? The god E.J Wells is talking may have the power to kill all the men but does he do that? If the god works through science then it has a chance to be surpassed and it wants that. If mankind surpassed god than the god wouldn't be supreme anymore.

What is infinity + 1?

Since we really don't know what omnipotent or supreme means, who is to say that supreme can't get one-upped?

 

[8]

I am a church organist. Love playing for services and enjoy hymns, liturgy, readings, and all that stuff. Interestingly, I'd consider myself to be in the 'don't care/don't think about it' category.

 

[Hekate]

Hmmm, I've never been called that before. FWIW, I don't believe in my own religion, but I have my own personal feelings about my creator.

Well, you have your opinion about your god rather than believing just what the book says. I assume that makes you a deist but you are what you believe you are.

What is infinity + 1?

Since we really don't know what omnipotent or supreme means, who is to say that supreme can't get one-upped?

Isn't infinity + 1 still infinity? I see no difference.

The god in most monotheist are all-powerful. They can't be surpassed, they can't be one-upped and people find solace in that.

 

[BTP]

I disagree. As a father, I really hope and pray that my children will be better than me in every way. I can't speak for anybody else's God, but the God I believe in would love to see me surpass him on every level of the Tower. Just because I believe this doesn't mean that a God or Father will somehow lose their "father role". IMO, no matter how far we progress, we will never actually be 100% above them for all sorts of reasons, but to think that a father or God wouldn't want his children to become better than him is silly.

Honestly I think that 90% of the father want their kids to succeed for the reason that they assisted them doing it. So to say he's the "god" who made it all possible. Think of all these dads who "coach" their kids at sports, force them to carry the same first name with appendix Jr. or III. or whatever.
I don't say it's bad since they're (over)committed. But it's not a selfless case, since human beings by nature are narcissistic. Some simply show it off stronger.
That's a very similar relationship like a believer has with his god. The god is an idol without flaws. He has his human role models that have minor flaws to showcase the human weakness and keep the picture humble and serve as examples to strengthen values.
A family is very similar. If you did a serious mistake you wouldn't want your kids to know the first impulse would be to find a lie to maintain that god status. If that's not possible you have to step 1 role below it and display yourself as a good guy whose mistake can add a valuable experience for everyone in the family to learn from it.
And you have all these figures in a family. That's why it makes religion redundant if it's functioning properly.