MVP
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Same like this to me...> The God that I believe in would most certainly work his magic through science, and would be taking immense pleasure in watching us figure it all out.
Do you believe in the afterlife?
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Same like this to me...> The God that I believe in would most certainly work his magic through science, and would be taking immense pleasure in watching us figure it all out.
LogGrad98
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Do you take pleasure in watching your child figure out a solution to a problem on their own, or learn to walk, or talk, or come running to you excited they found something out that day? Or do you just sit them down and force feed them every bit of knowledge that exists the second they are old enough to comprehend something beside pooping and eating?
Mankind wants to believe in miracles and magic. If there were truly a god and it worked its magic through science then men would have a hope of surpassing him. Without a father role who punishes and rewards justly, religion falls.
I suppose he has a point, kind of. While I think he was just giving a cop out, I can see how he would think that my opinion was rubbish as well. I dig it and retract my previous insult to AK.
I disagree. As a father, I really hope and pray that my children will be better than me in every way. I can't speak for anybody else's God, but the God I believe in would love to see me surpass him on every level of the Tower. Just because I believe this doesn't mean that a God or Father will somehow lose their "father role". IMO, no matter how far we progress, we will never actually be 100% above them for all sorts of reasons, but to think that a father or God wouldn't want his children to become better than him is silly.
MVP
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I don't think it is rubbish at all. I look very simply at this - one opinion is based on scientific evidence, other based on faith. It is ok to chose which one suits you more. It is your choice, I respect it and I actually am a bit jealous - you will die with hope that you will live again, while I will die believing it is the end.
So you are deist. Then we are just talking about a man who believes in his own religion. I still think for a religion to work for a mass a god needs to be supreme.
LogGrad98
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Depends on your definition of supreme. The Spanish had the power to more or less wipe out the Aztecs/Mayans, and did so with a mysterious disease, like magic or a curse. Was that godlike power? Was that supreme? If the ability to kill your entire civilization isn't supreme, not sure what is.
Alright, fair enough I suppose. However, I have always had a hard time with the "faith" aspect of religion, even though I feel like I have an abundance of it. Over the last few years, however, I have taken a much greater interest in some of the more bizarre scientific theories that are out there, because they actually seem to solidify my faith with possible and rational explanations. The Multiverse is one great example, along with different dimensions of time and space. If you take aspects of those particular theories, some of the wilder stuff of Mormon doctrine starts to click -- at least for me. Maybe I'm just that desperate that I'll cling to anything, but either way, it is refreshing and exciting to have new things to think about and ponder.
Hmmm, I've never been called that before. FWIW, I don't believe in my own religion, but I have my own personal feelings about my creator.
Supreme may be a relative thing. Yes, they had the power to more or less wipe out a civilization but were they omni-potent? No. If it was a godlike power wouldn't be world run by The spanish? The god E.J Wells is talking may have the power to kill all the men but does he do that? If the god works through science then it has a chance to be surpassed and it wants that. If mankind surpassed god than the god wouldn't be supreme anymore.
A Utah Jazz championship?
LogGrad98
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What is infinity + 1?
Since we really don't know what omnipotent or supreme means, who is to say that supreme can't get one-upped?
Well, you have your opinion about your god rather than believing just what the book says. I assume that makes you a deist but you are what you believe you are.
Isn't infinity + 1 still infinity? I see no difference.
The god in most monotheist are all-powerful. They can't be surpassed, they can't be one-upped and people find solace in that.
Honestly I think that 90% of the father want their kids to succeed for the reason that they assisted them doing it. So to say he's the "god" who made it all possible. Think of all these dads who "coach" their kids at sports, force them to carry the same first name with appendix Jr. or III. or whatever.
I don't say it's bad since they're (over)committed. But it's not a selfless case, since human beings by nature are narcissistic. Some simply show it off stronger.
That's a very similar relationship like a believer has with his god. The god is an idol without flaws. He has his human role models that have minor flaws to showcase the human weakness and keep the picture humble and serve as examples to strengthen values.
A family is very similar. If you did a serious mistake you wouldn't want your kids to know the first impulse would be to find a lie to maintain that god status. If that's not possible you have to step 1 role below it and display yourself as a good guy whose mistake can add a valuable experience for everyone in the family to learn from it.
And you have all these figures in a family. That's why it makes religion redundant if it's functioning properly.
For what it's worth, I've never met a person who completely believes their own religion. Every religious person I've ever had a religious discussion with expresses a personalized view of what God must be based on their own sense of morality and justice.
A powerful argument in favor of a supreme being is that it makes possible absolute morality and gives that moral code the necessary authority to drive people to behave accordingly. The problem I've seen is that even "older" religions like the Catholic church evolve and they do so in accordance with mortal ideas of what constitutes right and wrong. But while the large religious institutions change more gradually individuals are constantly inventing and reinventing their own notions of who God is and who He must be.
To be on topic a little, the idea of an afterlife is the byproduct of the fear that comes from our awareness of our own mortality, the grandest of all self delusions that allows us to face reality.
Are you a father, BTP?
I agree with you, a little, in an indirect way. I want to do whatever I can to help my children be happy and successful, but not for any sort of credit. I find immense satisfaction in being able to teach them things, but the satisfaction comes from their accomplishments, not my role in them.
Could you please elaborate on this?
Is going to church for you kinda like just "going through the motion" type activity?