I think there's some validity to that, but not sure how much. I think they will look better next to Lauri, but I don't know what it does for their overall development to be in an easier/more difficult situation. The point is to develop the players and part of that is putting them in more uncomfortable situations even if it makes them look worse in the interim. There are pros and cons, but truthfully I think true talent will develop in either situation.
Does Lauri Get Traded?
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I think there's some validity to that, but not sure how much. I think they will look better next to Lauri, but I don't know what it does for their overall development to be in an easier/more difficult situation. The point is to develop the players and part of that is putting them in more uncomfortable situations even if it makes them look worse in the interim. There are pros and cons, but truthfully I think true talent will develop in either situation.
Yeah but if the offers don’t blow you away I’d rather stand pat.
There are ways to tank with Lauri on the team.
SoberasHotRod
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Even if you don't believe it makes a big difference on their development, it does make a big difference in our ability to evaluate if we want to continue to develop these guys moving forward. We're going to have to make some tough decisions, maybe starting as early as next year in terms of which young first round picks we want to continue to develop and which ones we move on from potentially prematurely.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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Why settle? If they aren’t giving Podz and Kuminga and all the picks I say no, hell, find a way to give them JC and JC. I have no desire to give away Markkanen unless we’re getting a godfather offer.
That's fair. HOU is kind of an interesting case study for this. FVV was awesome for them last year and a lot of their young guys did improve. Would that have happened anyways? IMO, probably....but it's impossible to know. We see a lot of the bad things investing in vets for a similar effect, DET being the biggest example this summer. I think the most important thing is that you have PT and build good habits (which can happen with or without good vets), but there's something to the idea that you shouldn't just drown your developing players. I think it is probably player dependent.
SoberasHotRod
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Developing player dependent AND Vet Player dependent. Lauri is an amazing Vet because he's one of the few players that makes everyone's life easier without dominating the ball.
TheStormofWar
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I mean, to be fair, he's not really wrong...
Handlogten's Heros
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This makes me laugh. Team doesn't want to trade player... other team makes offer... miffed and peeved that they won't sell for what they believe is "logical". Bitch... we got what you want. Pay full market (and maybe a premium) or GTFO
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I don't think it is. If Lauri is healthy and on an extension he is a player that 29 other teams REALLY want. We don't have to sell at a fair price. We can ask for a premium.
We can sell off another piece and hit the tank with Lauri button and see what happens. Land Flagg or another high level guy and you can step on the accelerator a little and bounce up the standing pretty quickly. Trade Lauri and it becomes a process that is at least twice as long. If you don't hit in this draft then you can look to pivot with an AS on a 4 year deal. Again... as long as he's healthy we good.
That’s not giving Lauri away at all. It’s probably actually better than the Gobert trade. Podz is really ****ing good and the Warriors might be a play-in team with the bottom falling out when those picks come due.
We don’t have to trade him, but everybody has to get a grip and on the one hand understand this is a walking 23/8 on 50/40/90 that’s 7 feet tall and in his prime, while on the other hand he’s an expiring contract that functionally can’t be extended after being traded and is problematic for the rebuild. Both can be true.
I’m trying to drive towards a realistic trade package that keeps the most important parts of the deal pre-extension. Parties may still walk and people can disagree whether it’s worth it for their side. But it’s certainly not nothing.
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I feel as though I've been the guy who is most on the "we're going to suck even with Lauri" and "the lotto odds are really flat, bottoming out doesn't have the same value". Having said that, eeeking out every last ounce of value from Lauri isn't my priority as a franchise. As I've said before, if we already have these other trades for Sexton/Kessler line up, that could change things....But right now I prioritize a clear direction over being more stubborn and trying to win the deal by as much as possible.
I can already hear someone saying "we don't have to trade Lauri". I don't think keeping Lauri is a bad position, I always speak about how having a star is a power position.....but I am not so in love that we must the most incredible package to make me budge. I understand Ainge is going to ask for everything, I'm not the one going to the negotiation table. There is a price that gets the deal done, and for me that is less than "everything". I don't think we need 150%+ or whatever of the Bridges value to make it worthwhile to budge. Having Lauri is a good situation. I like having Moody and all the Warriors picks more.
I've also ingested a lot of opinion from places outside of this forum. Maybe this forum is all knowing and completely objective/non-biased when it comes to Jazz trades, but I took a more holistic approach and gathering more outside opinions has formed my expectations and understanding of what a fair deal is.
Again, read what I'm actually saying
And Lacob has to know he has made his own bed in terms of other teams wanting to make him look bad when he went out of his way to brag about how smart he was with "light-years ahead"
HermanG
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The logic in the bolded is not a question of talent, but of personality. Most of us react to positive reinforcement better.
Repeated failures are proven to often harm self-esteem and lead to a strategy of least effort in many case studies regarding the subject.
In lamen terms, lose enough and you stop giving a ****.
I think this is the lowest I’d take:
26/28/30 firsts
27/29/31 swaps
Salary filler
Podz
26/28/30 firsts
27/29/31 swaps
Salary filler
Podz
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"I talked mad **** on everyone and now teams don't want to give me things I want... why are they so illogical".
Based on the conversation I had with Elizah Huge and a few other posters last week they seemed to think that with Lauri we are around the 6-8 worst team in the league. I don't feel that way but lets say that is the case. If we move Lauri for a pick heavy package I think we have the worst record in the league since we are also playing in the west. That essentially guarantees us a top 5 pick. That improved asset also needs to be viewed as part of a Lauri trade. We obviously could still jump into that top 4 if we finish in the 6-8 range but being guaranteed to be in that top 5 is worth a lot for me. Probably worth more than any single asset coming back from another team in a Lauri trade.
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Podz, Moody, and all the picks just doesn't seem like 150% of value to me. The picks having some work around language because of a pick they gave away is also like a small dent in the package. Its less about squeezing value on Lauri and more about this is the pivot point for the franchise for the next 3 years or so. If we sold Sexton or Kessler at 75% of value to tank I'd go that route rather than taking 90% on Lauri. He's the star... he's a hinge.
Right now the reporting is
Ainge: all first round picks, some seconds, Podz, JK, Moody
Warriors: All first round picks, some seconds, Moody
Me: The acceptable ground is all the firsts, Podz, Moody.
Is it a hard line... not if DA prefers to tear things down to the studs now and tank for multiple years. If he prefers strongly the keep Lauri and figure out the tank... then I would hold the line. This is a negotiation that makes sense to really dig in assuming Lauri is willing to sign the extension (which he absolutely should be).
You would draw a hard line at Moody and Podz or would you spare Moody to get Podz and all the picks?
Lacob being a dumb dumb is a reason why the GSW picks are so appealing. The Warriors are good because they have Curry. They even tried to trade Curry on Lacob's watch. I want the Warriors picks when they no longer have Curry. They could be Kangz level of stupid without their all time great.