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DOMA and Prop 8 bite the dust

Stoked said:
Gameface said:
However, I see a benefit that goes beyond that and I don't think there should be any limitations to a civil union. Two sisters who live together, share expenses, etc. could benefit from a civil union by legally combining their assets. I don't see why there should be any restrictions at all.
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I'd be on board with that.
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I've posted that idea before--that if a civil union exists for a homosexual couple (whether or not it's called a marriage), then the same thing should exist for a non-sexually-intimate couple that live together (of whatever sexes). The sisters example is a good one, I think.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
It would be like me saying, "I think Mormonism is silly and ridiculous, and those that believe it are immoral and wrong, but I love them anyway." I may not mean that in a hateful way, but it's a pretty crappy thing to say and IMO hateful and rude.
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Isn't that exactly what you are saying, though? You are saying that my church's teaching against gay marriage is silly, ridiculous, immoral, and wrong. Are you not?

For what it's worth, I don't consider your words to be hateful against Mormons, and am at a loss as to why you consider mine to be hateful against gays.
 
colton said:
For what it's worth, I did the neg rep well before you gave me the pos rep. :grouphug:
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I'll let you off easy this time ;)

Isn't that exactly what you are saying, though? You are saying that my church's teaching against gay marriage is silly, ridiculous, immoral, and wrong. Are you not?

For what it's worth, I don't consider your words to be hateful against Mormons, and am at a loss as to why you consider mine to be hateful against gays.
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Yes, I am saying that the LDS Churches stance is all of those things. And maybe thats hateful or bigoted to some and so be it. I stand by that assertion and if that makes me a bigot to some, then oh well.

As for my opinion that your words are hateful or bigoted, thats just the way you speak makes me feel.
 
Gameface said:
Should I be legally barred from divorce because it's not in the best interest of my child?

What other activities should be legally required and legally barred to force people to raise their children in a way we consider as "right" based on our ethnocentric value system?
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forcing a mother and father to remain married does more damage.
a unhappy toxic marriage cause more damage than a divorce
 
BabyPeterzz said:
I'll let you off easy this time ;)



Yes, I am saying that the LDS Churches stance is all of those things. And maybe thats hateful or bigoted to some and so be it. I stand by that assertion and if that makes me a bigot to some, then oh well.

As for my opinion that your words are hateful or bigoted, thats just the way you speak makes me feel.
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As someone on your side of the fence (pro gay marriage) I truly feel that it is more your emotions affecting your reaction more than what Colton is saying.
 
Stoked said:
Places like Utah, Idaho, Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia, Texas...will not pass it. I see the blue states all getting on the band wagon eventually but not the red states. Just one more thing that will divide us...
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one serious question.
as an outsider i seem to like more the red states?

you are blue or red?
 
BabyPeterzz said:
So DutchRudder is against homosexual marriage, but all about incest.

Do you sit at home and just punch yourself in the dick all day long?
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i'm not for incest.
i state that if a man wants to have sex with a man. it's his free will and right to do it.
just as 2 cousins who want to have sex with eachother. its there right. i mean we cant stop it.
let them have at it.

but gay mariage and Relation marriage should not be allowed.
 
Stoked said:
So that right here gets me. Why does it have to be hate? Why can't it just be that he does not liek it or agree.

For example. Had a brother get into a rough life style. Booze, drugs, women...he was heading for a fast grave or a life in jail. I love my brother but I did not like the way he was living. Was my distaste rooted in hate? No and to say it was is foolish. I believe the majority of those against gay marriage fit into a similar category. Many religious folks refer to this as "love the sinner not the sin".
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Yeah, the problem becomes that if you believe homosexuality is genetic (and I do) then the "sinner" is doomed at birth by those who believe that line of thinking.

Personally I don't care to live in a society that says "you were born gay? Well **** you then, you're some sort of sinning person and therefore shouldn't have any sort of equal rights. I mean, you can still be gay and all but don't do anything that is perfectly legal for heterosexual couples to do. Who cares what your pesky hormones and natural urges say. Sucks for you that you were born that way, but hey, God's will and stuff."
 
Nate505 said:
Yeah, the problem becomes that if you believe homosexuality is genetic (and I do) then the "sinner" is doomed at birth by those who believe that line of thinking.

Personally I don't care to live in a society that says "you were born gay? Well **** you then, you're some sort of sinning person and therefore shouldn't have any sort of equal rights. I mean, you can still be gay and all but don't do anything that is perfectly legal for heterosexual couples to do. Who cares what your pesky hormones and natural urges say. Sucks for you that you were born that way, but hey, God's will and stuff."
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Many people that are agaisnt gay marriage don't care about the legal rights associated with marriage being granted to gays. Hence the whole civil union offer that was rejected.
 
I didn't know gay people couldn't get married until I was probably 17 and I couldn't believe it. I still can't believe this is an issue.
 
Stoked said:
Many people that are agaisnt gay marriage don't care about the legal rights associated with marriage being granted to gays. Hence the whole civil union offer that was rejected.
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See, I take offense that religious people seem to think they own the monopoly on "marriage". I consider myself married and I'm not religious, at all. Marriage is now apart of our social fabric and its something I hold dear and is very important to me.

Religion doesn't own marriage.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
See, I take offense that religious people seem to think they own the monopoly on "marriage". I consider myself married and I'm not religious, at all. Marriage is now apart of our social fabric and its something I hold dear and is very important to me.

Religion doesn't own marriage.
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Fair enough. However I do think that the defending marriage arguement is solid in principle and horrible in execution. I am all for protecting the sanctitiy of marriage. Denying the rights of marriage to gays does not do that. You could require counseling before divorce (exceptions for violence, crimes...), counseling before marriage, removal of immediate marriages (like the Vegas drive thrus)...
 
BabyPeterzz said:
See, I take offense that religious people seem to think they own the monopoly on "marriage". I consider myself married and I'm not religious, at all. Marriage is now apart of our social fabric and its something I hold dear and is very important to me.

Religion doesn't own marriage.
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I agree with this, and I have also held, for years, the same opinion as Stoked. The gubbmint should recognize "domestic partnerships". My wife and I are a DP, my gay neighbor and his partner are a DP. As far as marriage goes, let churches continue to do their own thing, so their members can have whatever standing they need before God. But any other entity should be the same. If your biker gang or chihuahua ownership club wants to sanction a marriage, good on 'em. They can recognize it for their own purposes, just like a church would. There is a lot about non-denominational and non-religious weddings on the interwebz.
 
Nate505 said:
Yeah, the problem becomes that if you believe homosexuality is genetic (and I do) then the "sinner" is doomed at birth by those who believe that line of thinking.

Personally I don't care to live in a society that says "you were born gay? Well **** you then, you're some sort of sinning person and therefore shouldn't have any sort of equal rights. I mean, you can still be gay and all but don't do anything that is perfectly legal for heterosexual couples to do. Who cares what your pesky hormones and natural urges say. Sucks for you that you were born that way, but hey, God's will and stuff."
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Whilst drafting a post about this earlier today, for about five whole minutes, I completely understood where the LDS and other Christian churches come from. Not just saw it, but understood it wholly. Why they're so deathly against it in the media, so adamant, so unforgiving. Everything. I didn't agree with it, but I had a grasp of it that I'd never had before.

And then I dropped a deuce. And I tell you, it was a doosey. But afterwards I completely lost that train of thought. I don't even remember where in the argument it started, or ended.

I guess what I'm trying to say, if they'd collectively pull the stick out of their ***, they'd grasp that they under no circumstances need to accept, recognize, or preform LBGT marriages. They just need to let others use their free agency to the fullest.
 
Stoked said:
SLC is purple and the rest of Utah is blood red.
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Take it back take it back, lil brother!

The majority of this state is blue baby. Sellouts happen even in late November when it's a game against Idaho kickoff at 8:30pm. Only a lil bit of SLC is red. And most of them don't even go to the games.
 
The Thriller said:
Take it back take it back, lil brother!

The majority of this state is blue baby. Sellouts happen even in late November when it's a game against Idaho kickoff at 8:30pm. Only a lil bit of SLC is red. And most of them don't even go to the games.
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Lol brother my ***. **** Utah and **** BYU.
 
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