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Donald is about to go through some things...

I don't think you're as bad as steak and eggs but you're certainly no better than AI-O-Meter

I think you're toxic.

I think you're too emotionally invested in the Democratic Party. I think you engage in very binary thinking. I don't think you take a sophisticated approach to these issues, I think you take a tribalistic approach to these issues.

I agree with you almost all of the time, but I seldom enjoy the toxicity you inject in your message. I often get turned off by your party loyalty. I don't want to be like left of center version of MAGA, but that is exactly how I see you.
You say it much better than I can. I know we view things very differently but I know we could actually have a conversation about something. I appreciate it.
 
Challenge accepted!

I voted for Bush in 2004 in the first election I could vote in and voted for Utah’s own gay marriage ban that same year. Education, life experience, and the changing of the political parties have impacted my political views in the last 20 years. I also voted for Romney in 2012 over Obama and have overwhelmingly voted Republican in the past at the local level (govs huntsman and Herbert). So yeah, not exactly this ideologue you think. Instead of attacking me for having a binary way of thinking in 2024, perhaps the question should be why I think this way in 2024 and have changed so much over the past 12 and 20 years respectively? This also fits with the our own media’s blind spot concerning Biden voters. When was the last time Biden voters were interviewed in diners? Why aren’t people asking Biden supporters why they continue to support him? Is it because they belong to a cult, are toxic ideologies, or ignorant? Perhaps there’s a reason for their way of thinking?

I do think there are principles of conservatism that I can get behind. But what we’re seeing from the GOP over the last 10 years isn’t conservatism. I’d love for conservatives on here to debate ideas. Instead, they have this need to defend Trump. As we’ve seen today, it doesn’t matter the topic. They’ll tie themselves up in knots to defend Trump and turn the arguments on the messengers rather than debate an issue on its own merits. Which is again why I’m having to defend myself rather than us debating Trump’s unhinged rants and the danger that mind poses to our country and planet.

It’s not my place to ask you or Buck to actually do anything. But I do wish you’d ask “why” more. Instead of running to our tribal battle stations, ask the other poster why and for the responder to be vulnerable and honest enough to explain why.
Alright man. I'm gonna take the L and step back.
 
I guess because the exact wording isn't being used. He never said shine a flashlight up your butt.
He said to use UV light to shine through the skin or something (I'm just going off memory from years ago so I might be off a little on the wording/phrasing)

See when being critical of trump you must be precise, specific, fair, honest etc. Even though trump is never those things when he talks about something/someone.

Anyone not named trump has to follow a different set of rules

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No across the board you should. I’m not posting stupid **** I know is wrong like when the right loud mouths will post; example any time Biden pauses while walking and it looks like he is ******** his pants but he is not. It’s stupid, not genuine and taken out of context. Same like the other day when he walks away from the parachute guy, that wasn’t accurate at all.

This is my issue with the posts on here. Just because he rants about electric tanks or mixes up a name or says $2 mortgages; when you listen to the whole rant he is talking percentages. He used $ instead of %. Oh no, he used $ he is unfit.

It’s utter nonsense, just like the right when the bashed Obama when he incorrectly said Corpsman. Or when Biden used Tuskegee Airman instead of Tuskegee experiment. The mistakes happen all the time. So what.
 
I take issue with this. When one party wants to end American democracy and the other doesn’t, for sake of our constitution we need you to follow us to the pro-democratic side. There can be plenty of time to debate what the perfect tax rate on billionaires should be. Right now however, that’s not the issue. The issue is whether we are going to empower Trump and the ideologues that want I replace American democracy with fascism.

Right, it has nothing to do with how senile Biden is getting and everything to do with Trump's textbook march toward a dictatorship.
 
No across the board you should. I’m not posting stupid **** I know is wrong like when the right loud mouths will post; example any time Biden pauses while walking and it looks like he is ******** his pants but he is not. It’s stupid, not genuine and taken out of context. Same like the other day when he walks away from the parachute guy, that wasn’t accurate at all.

This is my issue with the posts on here. Just because he rants about electric tanks or mixes up a name or says $2 mortgages; when you listen to the whole rant he is talking percentages. He used $ instead of %. Oh no, he used $ he is unfit.

It’s utter nonsense, just like the right when the bashed Obama when he incorrectly said Corpsman. Or when Biden used Tuskegee Airman instead of Tuskegee experiment. The mistakes happen all the time. So what.

Are you sure there's not a few squirts every time he stops?
 
No across the board you should. I’m not posting stupid **** I know is wrong like when the right loud mouths will post; example any time Biden pauses while walking and it looks like he is ******** his pants but he is not. It’s stupid, not genuine and taken out of context. Same like the other day when he walks away from the parachute guy, that wasn’t accurate at all.

This is my issue with the posts on here. Just because he rants about electric tanks or mixes up a name or says $2 mortgages; when you listen to the whole rant he is talking percentages. He used $ instead of %. Oh no, he used $ he is unfit.

It’s utter nonsense, just like the right when the bashed Obama when he incorrectly said Corpsman. Or when Biden used Tuskegee Airman instead of Tuskegee experiment. The mistakes happen all the time. So what.

I agree with what you're saying and in some cases I'd give The Rapist the benefit of doubt, as I would Biden or anyone. But in so many cases with The Rapist his pedestrian rants have an underlying goal. The Rapist is a brilliant con man so he should be called out consistently when warranted, which is nearly all of the time because his overarching interest has nothing to do with the betterment of the USA. His goal is that of any malignant narcissist, to gain power and control over others.
 
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I agree with what you're saying and in some cases I'd give The Rapist the benefit of doubt, as I would Biden or anyone. But in so many cases with The Rapist his pedestrian rants have an underlying goal. The Rapist is a brilliant con man so he should be called out consistently when warranted, which is nearly all of the time because his overarching interest has nothing to do with the betterment of the USA. His goal is that of any malignant narcissist, to gain power and control over others.

the brilliant con man is on the money. He's the type that you deal with in life periodically who has worked out that despite a lack of substance or talent that if he just keeps waffling on enough and is abrasive enough and persistent enough that he can get his way just through a constant stream of ******** where people lose track of what the **** he is on about or just come to terms to shut him up and get rid of him and move on. But he's elevated it to unseen proportions. I mean he's basically spent his life juggling debt and haggling and continuously through delusional self belief propelling himself forward, which takes a special set of loose screws to be able to do.
 
I'm not a party loyalist at all, but I disagree with your take on Thriller.

This isn't about electric tanks, it's a straw man argument made by The Rapist to further engage the culture war so that come election time Trumptards are so riled up they are willing to not just attack the Capitol, but fellow Americans. This is definitely not about electric tanks. BTW is there a report somwewhere that the military is building electric tanks? But that's really beside the point.

The Thriller made his point right here and I think it's the crux of this conversation:

"2. Something both you and AL do a lot of and it’s dishonest, is remove context. This isn’t the first time Trump has rifted about electric tanks. Having non-tactical hybrid vehicles on base for transportation doesn’t sound like a bad idea. Yet, Trump exaggerates and lies, and makes it sound like our “woke military that loves LGBTs and blacks is now selling out our security for electric battle tanks while other less woke militaries continue to use good old fashioned manly fossil fuel powered tanks. Libs are weak impotent green queers!” There’s valuable MAGA context here that fuels his populism (fascism tbh). He’s not debating the merits of hybrid or electric powered vehicles. He’s using this as yet another point in his culture war. He’s creating a narrative that “MAGA strong people use fossil fuels while the other side uses dumb impotent wimpy unrealistic forms of energy. And I bet they also use vaccines, love gays, use wimpy shower heads, are black, etc.”
Exactly this.

No across the board you should. I’m not posting stupid **** I know is wrong like when the right loud mouths will post; example any time Biden pauses while walking and it looks like he is ******** his pants but he is not. It’s stupid, not genuine and taken out of context. Same like the other day when he walks away from the parachute guy, that wasn’t accurate at all.

This is my issue with the posts on here. Just because he rants about electric tanks or mixes up a name or says $2 mortgages; when you listen to the whole rant he is talking percentages. He used $ instead of %. Oh no, he used $ he is unfit.

It’s utter nonsense, just like the right when the bashed Obama when he incorrectly said Corpsman. Or when Biden used Tuskegee Airman instead of Tuskegee experiment. The mistakes happen all the time. So what.
Again, you’re removing context.

Gaffes? Sure we can understand and excuse those. But this is a man who lies and deceives about everything. From the trivial, like redrawing with sharpies the path of hurricanes and talking about nuking a hurricane to the most serious, asking Russia for election help while denying any business deals in Russia are being debated. To blackmailing Ukraine and gaslighting us about lying to deceive millions so our elections are undermined and he can stay in power. To taking classified documents, lying and attempting to deceive the FBI that those said documents had been returned. To concocting a sleazy scheme to hide illegal payments made to kill the news of his sleeping with a porn star. To telling the Secretary of State of Georgia to find enough votes to win and then lying about it.

Trump isn’t just committing gaffes. It’s part of his modus operandi to lie, cheat, deceive, and incite outrage and division so he can gain and/or retain power. He’s selling Americans on snake oil so they empower him to become a dictator. Specifically, at the most recent rally, he’s attempting to de-sensitive his base to the idea of mass deportation of undesired people, the pro gay and black weakness of our military, and the importance of establishing a strongman dictator to be our nation’s savior. Folks, this is a major threat to our democracy! These are rantings if a mad aspiring fascist dictator, attributes completely incompatible with a pluralistic society and a healthy multicultural democracy bound by a constitution.

We shouldn’t take these threats lightly. We shouldn’t remove the much needed context from Trump’s overall history and narrative just because he belongs to our perceived political tribe. We need to see the big picture, the white grievance narrative that Trump has been selling for nearly 10 years now.
 
Last post and I’m out for today, it would benefit some of you to ask “liberal” friends or Biden voters in your red states why they do so. They are (political) minorities in their states and communities. In my experience, they’re often voting against what the majority of their colleagues, friends, religious congregations, and families do. And sometimes they do so at the detriment of familial relationships. In the last 10 years we’ve read endless stories about trumpers who despite everything, continue to support their guy. I’ve yet to read a single piece on Biden voters in a diner who continue to support him. I wonder why?

It could do some of you good. There are some (not many) blue voters in utah. I’d recommend you ask them why and listen. Their answers could be enlightening.
 
You’re so hyperbolic. Trump didn’t exactly say that. This is really toxic and offensive. Please apologize or else I’m going to support a man who pledges to be dictator. See what you made me do?

/s

Btw, happy Father’s Day!
View attachment 16540
I start reading that post from trump and like 10 words in it's just blah blah blah ssdd

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
Imagine if Biden did any of these. The media would be having a feeding frenzy. It would be like a bleeding man in the ocean being surrounded by sharks and batteries!

Two dollar mortgages?! Wow! No wonder why the economy crashed under Trump. How’s a bank supposed to turn a profit with $2 dollar mortgages?

Dr Ronny Johnson? Dementia! He’s too old! Why don’t republicans replace Trump?


View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1802107735179243826?s=46



View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1802104631100670421?s=46



View: https://x.com/rothschildmd/status/1802106643674800589?s=46


Trying to desensitize us to what’s going to be a human rights catastrophe?

View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1802111774503674268?s=46


He already blackmailed him last election cycle. Now he’s going to seek retribution for the first impeachment by cutting off military aid and feeding Ukraine to his buddy Vlad? Keep this in mind come November. I know some here might want a few more pennies to blow on eggs and gas. But some things might have long-term global impacts by voting for the Kremlin’s pick for president this fall.

View: https://x.com/atrupar/status/1802108477889802466?s=46
Why don’t republicans replace Trump? He’s too old, dementia ridden, and is a felon. He’s a gaffe machine. He’s going to be a disaster for the upcoming debate. It’s a joke that Republicans are giving us Trump as a choice.

I didn’t take anything out of context, this is what you posted. Very different from this:


Again, you’re removing context.

“Gaffes? Sure we can understand and excuse those. But this is a man who lies and deceives about everything. From the trivial, like redrawing with sharpies the path of hurricanes and talking about nuking a hurricane to the most serious, asking Russia for election help while denying any business deals in Russia are being debated. To blackmailing Ukraine and gaslighting us about lying to deceive millions so our elections are undermined and he can stay in power. To taking classified documents, lying and attempting to deceive the FBI that those said documents had been returned. To concocting a sleazy scheme to hide illegal payments made to kill the news of his sleeping with a porn star. To telling the Secretary of State of Georgia to find enough votes to win and then lying about it.

Trump isn’t just committing gaffes. It’s part of his modus operandi to lie, cheat, deceive, and incite outrage and division so he can gain and/or retain power. He’s selling Americans on snake oil so they empower him to become a dictator. Specifically, at the most recent rally, he’s attempting to de-sensitive his base to the idea of mass deportation of undesired people, the pro gay and black weakness of our military, and the importance of establishing a strongman dictator to be our nation’s savior. Folks, this is a major threat to our democracy! These are rantings if a mad aspiring fascist dictator, attributes completely incompatible with a pluralistic society and a healthy multicultural democracy bound by a constitution.

We shouldn’t take these threats lightly. We shouldn’t remove the much needed context from Trump’s overall history and narrative just because he belongs to our perceived political tribe. We need to see the big picture, the white grievance narrative that Trump has been selling for nearly 10 years now.”



You posted gotcha ********, like you always do.

Mass deportation a human rights catastrophe…

18,000 families with children deported. Why are you not claiming Biden is the leader of this Human Rights Catastrophe? It is the most ever. Why is Biden such a racist. Why doesn’t he care about all these immigrants?

See this is the Bull **** you spew. In the video you posted , he said he is going after terrorists and then a single mom and children will also get deported. Then he says the headlines will show the single mom and kids, making him look bad. Just like AOC and the cages; what other president used the cages? They didn’t AOC come down when Biden was president and fake cry at the cages?

It’s political nonsense. You keep pushing it.
 
Then I see that he was just on a podcast with logan paul and was asked about ufo/aliens/ uap and this is his response: "I know there are illegal aliens out there but those are the ones that come through the border. We have plenty of them. Those are the ones...when you say aliens, I say are they illegal aliens? These might be illegal but we don't want to test them, because if they can go four times faster we're not gonna test them."

What is he talking about when he says we dont want to test them, because if they can go 4 times faster we're not going to test them? What are you testing them for? 4 times faster than what?
Believe it or not, he’s actually talking about UAP’s(UFO’s) that appear to go a lot faster than our own aircraft. Those aliens, in other words. He was distinguishing illegal aliens from south of the border, from whatever is piloting the UAP’s that Navy pilots have been reporting, such as in the so-called Nimitz incident. So, he’s distinguishing illegal aliens from space aliens. I’m not making this up. That is what Trump is talking about there. Our own @Gameface was aboard the USS Nimitz during the 2004 incident described below:



I have no idea what Trump believes where UAP’s are concerned. I recall he has talked about it at least once during his term in office. I’ve always been interested in the subject of UAP’s, and just happen to know that’s exactly what he’s talking about in those remarks.
 
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"Trump’s recent fundraising emails, alongside his campaign speeches and media interviews, offer a public chronicle of his escalating threats of violence, destruction and revenge.

BIDEN’S SOVIET TACTICS DON’T SCARE ME!
I’d go to jail AGAIN AND AGAIN if that’s what it took to Save America.
Because this fight has always been bigger than me, Friend.
It’s about restoring power where it belongs — TO YOU THE PEOPLE — and ending the tyrannical Biden regime’s reign of terror once and for all.


THEY OPENED FIRE ON MAGA!
NOBODY is safe from the RADICAL LEFT WAR MACHINE.
I warned you this would happen after my rigged conviction.


BIDEN'S DAY OF RECKONING IS COMING
He tried to publicly torture and humiliate me ... BUT HE FAILED.
He tried to raid my home and take me out with deadly force... BUT HE FAILED.
He tried to bury me with so many witch hunts that I'd be forced to quit... BUT HE FAILED.
STAND WITH TRUMP
34 RIGGED FELONY CONVICTIONS calls for an unprecedented response.
And if our response to his tyrannical regime isn't MASSIVE, Biden will move onto his next target: YOU!
In what is perhaps the most ominous and dangerous of these, Trump literally told his followers in a Thursday email that he might face the death sentence. (Before walking it back just enough, in classic Trump fashion.) The point of the metaphor is clear enough: Trump and his followers face existential danger, and those who remain loyal must be prepared to defend their leader at any cost:

THEY WANT TO SENTENCE ME TO DEATH!
You know they’d do it if they could, but Crooked Joe’s team of lowlifes and radical left thugs will settle for a LIFE SENTENCE. ...
Remember, it’s not me they’re after…
THEY’RE AFTER YOU - I’M JUST STANDING IN THEIR WAY!
But with your support,
I’ll NEVER give up.
I’LL NEVER SURRENDER! ...
Your support is the only thing standing between the Biden regime and their ultimate goal of DESTROYING AMERICA ONCE AND FOR ALL.
 


"Trump’s recent fundraising emails, alongside his campaign speeches and media interviews, offer a public chronicle of his escalating threats of violence, destruction and revenge.








In what is perhaps the most ominous and dangerous of these, Trump literally told his followers in a Thursday email that he might face the death sentence. (Before walking it back just enough, in classic Trump fashion.) The point of the metaphor is clear enough: Trump and his followers face existential danger, and those who remain loyal must be prepared to defend their leader at any cost:
Where are the MAGA apologists to help spin this flaming bag of blatant lies and treasonous ******* into something positive?
 
I didn’t take anything out of context, this is what you posted. Very different from this:


Again, you’re removing context.

“Gaffes? Sure we can understand and excuse those. But this is a man who lies and deceives about everything. From the trivial, like redrawing with sharpies the path of hurricanes and talking about nuking a hurricane to the most serious, asking Russia for election help while denying any business deals in Russia are being debated. To blackmailing Ukraine and gaslighting us about lying to deceive millions so our elections are undermined and he can stay in power. To taking classified documents, lying and attempting to deceive the FBI that those said documents had been returned. To concocting a sleazy scheme to hide illegal payments made to kill the news of his sleeping with a porn star. To telling the Secretary of State of Georgia to find enough votes to win and then lying about it.

Trump isn’t just committing gaffes. It’s part of his modus operandi to lie, cheat, deceive, and incite outrage and division so he can gain and/or retain power. He’s selling Americans on snake oil so they empower him to become a dictator. Specifically, at the most recent rally, he’s attempting to de-sensitive his base to the idea of mass deportation of undesired people, the pro gay and black weakness of our military, and the importance of establishing a strongman dictator to be our nation’s savior. Folks, this is a major threat to our democracy! These are rantings if a mad aspiring fascist dictator, attributes completely incompatible with a pluralistic society and a healthy multicultural democracy bound by a constitution.

We shouldn’t take these threats lightly. We shouldn’t remove the much needed context from Trump’s overall history and narrative just because he belongs to our perceived political tribe. We need to see the big picture, the white grievance narrative that Trump has been selling for nearly 10 years now.”



You posted gotcha ********, like you always do.

Mass deportation a human rights catastrophe…

18,000 families with children deported. Why are you not claiming Biden is the leader of this Human Rights Catastrophe? It is the most ever. Why is Biden such a racist. Why doesn’t he care about all these immigrants?

See this is the Bull **** you spew. In the video you posted , he said he is going after terrorists and then a single mom and children will also get deported. Then he says the headlines will show the single mom and kids, making him look bad. Just like AOC and the cages; what other president used the cages? They didn’t AOC come down when Biden was president and fake cry at the cages?

It’s political nonsense. You keep pushing it.
You've removed context once again. I just want to point out to those other posters on this board that don't think that you're MAGA that:

1. Once again you've removed context to make Biden look worse and Trump look better.
2. Demonstrated a lack of intellectual honesty because you've removed context.

I want to ask fellow posters to see my post as what it is, an honest attempt to debate actual issues, not as a "gotcha post" which you seem obsessed with doing right now.

1. I don't agree with Biden's immigration policy. In fact, I've long advocated for measures that aren't in line with either political party. Like this post in 2012 *notice how I attack the “lazy ***” government. Who was leading that government in 2012? When was the last time a conservative on here called out a Republican administration? And I’m called the ideologue? Lol. Anyway, read the post on immigration from 2012:
… I believe in being honest and fair to my fellow man, and yes, that includes those from S. American countries. I support the Dream Act. I also support cutting the BS that it takes to gain citizenship and visas. Regulate better those interviewing to cut the BS questions and the requests for "favors." I remember reading a few years back of an agent at the US Embassy in Brazil who would give out visas for girls who did him "favors." That's BS.

So much of our economy depends on the cheap labor that is provided by these immigrants. So why not make it easier for them to obtain visas and work permits? At UVU a professor spoke about this. Our government is still processing requests for work visas from Mexico from the 90s. Who the hell is going to wait 20+ years to gain the visas/work permits? I understand that these are probably extreme examples and not everyone is going to be delayed that long. But you can't just make people wait for years and years and expect them to NOT immigrate illegally.

How many actually want to live in their native countries while trying to merely gain ground by working here? Many even go back home. Have you ever been to a foreign country? Do you understand how difficult it is to find work there, leave your whole life behind, and start from scratch? Have some sympathy and show some respect for the courage so many of these folks have displayed.

Finally, instead of attacking people, attack those responsible for "illegal immigration." Attack the lazy *** government (who doesn't give out nearly enough visas, make it impossible for so many to come here, and who make it too complicated and expensive) and the businesses who break the laws.

Certainly we must maintain our borders. But by the same token, much can be done to aid in legal immigration, obtaining of citizenship, and making this whole thing a lot better than it is right now.
The Biden administration recently worked to pass an immigration bill. It looked like it was going to pass until Trump decided to campaign on immigration and demanded that House Republicans kill it. Unlike Trump, I see the Biden administration trying to work a politically untenable situation while balancing human rights. I'd like to see them error on human rights more. But I also get that political realities sometimes take priority.

2. I don't believe Biden is a racist. Especially since he isn't demagoguing like one. He's not calling others "vermin." He isn't promising walls that Mexico will pay for. He's not referring to Mexicans as "rapists" and murderers." He's not bemoaning that we don't have more immigrants from Scandinavian countries. He's not calling other countries "******** countries." He also has a recent history of voting for inclusion, like supporting DACA and the DREAM Act. Both AOC and Biden seem to be shelving their support of human rights for political realities. Which is interesting since Republicans have branded them both to be stubborn ideologues. Why don't take issue with Trump's overt racism? If you're not trying to "get me" and are genuinely concerned with racism, why don't you find Trump's racism to be disqualifying? If you're concerned with 18,000 people being deported, why aren't you concerned with Trump's recent promise of 20 million being deported?

3. Unlike some people, I've detailed many times over the 10+ years I've been on this board what I believe needs to be done with major issues, like health care, immigration, etc. What are your solutions?
 
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Lol


Trump pointed to a video circulating in right-wing media of Biden seeming to wander off during a G7 meeting as evidence the president is “humiliating” the nation.

In reality, Biden was talking to a skydiver who had just landed near the group of leaders as part of a ceremony ― but the video was deceptively edited so that viewers don’t see the skydiver.

That and similar videos have been dismissed as “cheap fakes” by the White House and others, as they use quick and basic editing rather than AI “deep fake” technology.

But Trump got the term wrong.

“Crooked Joe and his handlers are insisting he’s sharper than ever, and they say the videos of Crooked Joe shuffling around are clean fakes,” Trump said. “You know what a clean fake is? They’re deceptively edited, they say they’re deceptively edited, all of the mistakes that he’s made, every day.”

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
 

Donald Trump is facing new questions about his cognitive health after a series of recent high-profile flubs and alarming new reports of memory problems.
Now, a new supercut video from the progressive MeidasTouch Network puts together three full minutes of Trump botching places and names:
 


The cycle of lies that drove the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection is again underway.

Five months before the 2024 election, claims that only fraud could explain a future Donald Trump defeat are already commonplace in the right-wing media ecosystem. Fox News stars and Trumpist influencers are priming their audiences to listen if Trump once again claims an election was “rigged” against him — and to come to his aid.

Twice last week, Greg Gutfeld told viewers of “The Five,” Fox News’ most-watched broadcast, that the public will only believe the 2024 results are legitimate if President Joe Biden loses.

“If they aren’t that worried that Joe’s going to lose, given his sorry state, what are they planning? What are they doing to save the day?” Gutfeld asked June 13. He added that if “by some weird, miraculous chance” Biden wins, “how do you convince anyone that’s real? Have they even thought of that?” He concluded, “Even the Dems behind the scenes better hope he doesn’t win because no one’s going to believe it.”

Gutfeld reiterated the point the next day, saying that if Democrats “somehow pull this out” by using “shenanigans” to win, “you’re going to deal with a public that doesn’t buy the election.”

That same week, Gutfeld’s colleague Jesse Watters used his prime-time show to call for banning ballot drop boxes on the grounds that they are “ripe for fraud” and to warn of millions of undocumented immigrants voting. “Biden let 10 million illegal immigrants into this country,” Watters claimed (falsely). “How are we ever going to accept the results of the election in this kind of landscape?”

This fear-mongering about the potential for election-changing fraud has been a consistent refrain all year on Fox News. “The Democrats are going to stop at nothing,” host Laura Ingraham declared in January. “If they can, they’re going to game the system or yeah, maybe even cheat.”



While the network paid a heavy price for its election denial in 2020 — including a $787.5 million defamation settlement with Dominion Voting Systems — its hosts are under constant pressure from other Trumpist competitors who loudly claim that Democratic election-rigging is an indisputable fact. “There are no ‘issues’ with the 2020 election — they stole it,” former Trump adviser and right-wing podcast host Steve Bannon claimed in March. “The only way they defeat Trump is to steal it. The only way they defeat Trump is they steal it. The only way they defeat Trump is they steal it. He is unstoppable.”

We saw four years ago that these disinformation campaigns can trigger horrific results. Trump’s plot to subvert the 2020 vote did not begin when he falsely declared victory in the hours after Election Day. By that point, the then-president and his right-wing media cronies had spent months preparing Republican voters not to accept a result that ended in his defeat. Outlets like Fox News relentlessly bombarded their audiences with misinformation about mail-in voting and election fraud. Trump in turn regularly promoted that bogus coverage, describing it as evidence that “Democrats are Rigging our 2020 Election!”

In fact, Trump had previously offered similar predictions before the 2016 election, only for his unexpected victory to render the argument moot. Four years later, though, the Trumpist base had been carefully readied to reject the truth of a Trump loss, provide cover for Republican politicians to try to reverse the outcome in states Biden won, and march on the U.S. Capitol in his name.

Trump’s election subversion effort failed, in part because Biden’s margin of victory was too large and in too many states, and in part because a handful of Republicans — notably his own vice president, Mike Pence — refused to participate. But November’s election may prove closer, and the allies of the former president — who still claims the 2020 results were “rigged” — have removed many of the guardrails that helped forestall his 2020 plot.


Constant pressure from Bannon and Fox’s stable of stars have both helped to turn election denial from a common GOP view to a core party value, one that would-be leaders must espouse in order to climb the ranks. Anti-election-denial Republicans like Pence are party outcasts; those seeking to replace him on the ticket outbid each other over who can seem most skeptical of American elections and supportive of Trump’s 2020 scheme. The Jan. 6 riot has been re-envisioned as a peaceful tour by American martyrs and patriots.


All this suits Trump’s aims perfectly. Mimicking his right-wing propagandists, Trump told Time magazine in April that the only thing that can prevent him from winning “in record-setting fashion” is if Democrats rely on “the things that they did the last time.” He warned that if that happens, political violence from his supporters may be on the table. In other words, Trump is ready for another Jan. 6-style assault on democracy if one proves necessary. And propagandists in the right-wing media are laying the groundwork to ensure his plot’s success.

This article was originally published on MSNBC.com
 


The cycle of lies that drove the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection is again underway.

Five months before the 2024 election, claims that only fraud could explain a future Donald Trump defeat are already commonplace in the right-wing media ecosystem. Fox News stars and Trumpist influencers are priming their audiences to listen if Trump once again claims an election was “rigged” against him — and to come to his aid.

Twice last week, Greg Gutfeld told viewers of “The Five,” Fox News’ most-watched broadcast, that the public will only believe the 2024 results are legitimate if President Joe Biden loses.

“If they aren’t that worried that Joe’s going to lose, given his sorry state, what are they planning? What are they doing to save the day?” Gutfeld asked June 13. He added that if “by some weird, miraculous chance” Biden wins, “how do you convince anyone that’s real? Have they even thought of that?” He concluded, “Even the Dems behind the scenes better hope he doesn’t win because no one’s going to believe it.”

Gutfeld reiterated the point the next day, saying that if Democrats “somehow pull this out” by using “shenanigans” to win, “you’re going to deal with a public that doesn’t buy the election.”

That same week, Gutfeld’s colleague Jesse Watters used his prime-time show to call for banning ballot drop boxes on the grounds that they are “ripe for fraud” and to warn of millions of undocumented immigrants voting. “Biden let 10 million illegal immigrants into this country,” Watters claimed (falsely). “How are we ever going to accept the results of the election in this kind of landscape?”

This fear-mongering about the potential for election-changing fraud has been a consistent refrain all year on Fox News. “The Democrats are going to stop at nothing,” host Laura Ingraham declared in January. “If they can, they’re going to game the system or yeah, maybe even cheat.”



While the network paid a heavy price for its election denial in 2020 — including a $787.5 million defamation settlement with Dominion Voting Systems — its hosts are under constant pressure from other Trumpist competitors who loudly claim that Democratic election-rigging is an indisputable fact. “There are no ‘issues’ with the 2020 election — they stole it,” former Trump adviser and right-wing podcast host Steve Bannon claimed in March. “The only way they defeat Trump is to steal it. The only way they defeat Trump is they steal it. The only way they defeat Trump is they steal it. He is unstoppable.”

We saw four years ago that these disinformation campaigns can trigger horrific results. Trump’s plot to subvert the 2020 vote did not begin when he falsely declared victory in the hours after Election Day. By that point, the then-president and his right-wing media cronies had spent months preparing Republican voters not to accept a result that ended in his defeat. Outlets like Fox News relentlessly bombarded their audiences with misinformation about mail-in voting and election fraud. Trump in turn regularly promoted that bogus coverage, describing it as evidence that “Democrats are Rigging our 2020 Election!”

In fact, Trump had previously offered similar predictions before the 2016 election, only for his unexpected victory to render the argument moot. Four years later, though, the Trumpist base had been carefully readied to reject the truth of a Trump loss, provide cover for Republican politicians to try to reverse the outcome in states Biden won, and march on the U.S. Capitol in his name.

Trump’s election subversion effort failed, in part because Biden’s margin of victory was too large and in too many states, and in part because a handful of Republicans — notably his own vice president, Mike Pence — refused to participate. But November’s election may prove closer, and the allies of the former president — who still claims the 2020 results were “rigged” — have removed many of the guardrails that helped forestall his 2020 plot.


Constant pressure from Bannon and Fox’s stable of stars have both helped to turn election denial from a common GOP view to a core party value, one that would-be leaders must espouse in order to climb the ranks. Anti-election-denial Republicans like Pence are party outcasts; those seeking to replace him on the ticket outbid each other over who can seem most skeptical of American elections and supportive of Trump’s 2020 scheme. The Jan. 6 riot has been re-envisioned as a peaceful tour by American martyrs and patriots.


All this suits Trump’s aims perfectly. Mimicking his right-wing propagandists, Trump told Time magazine in April that the only thing that can prevent him from winning “in record-setting fashion” is if Democrats rely on “the things that they did the last time.” He warned that if that happens, political violence from his supporters may be on the table. In other words, Trump is ready for another Jan. 6-style assault on democracy if one proves necessary. And propagandists in the right-wing media are laying the groundwork to ensure his plot’s success.

This article was originally published on MSNBC.com


Saw an interesting interview tonight with a woman from signal, she was talking about how we are living in a period of big data and big surveillance states have a desire to tap into this via unregulated tech giants in order to further social control. This becomes extremely problematic in a period of increasing authoritarianism.

 
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