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Donovan refuses to say whether or not he wants to be in Utah moving forward

The 10% was a placeholder number… any assigned percentage is completely subjective guesswork… but in one scenario you get almost a total loss and in the other you get a slight bump up.

The Rudy scenario is not comparable at all. We always knew where Rudy stood… he said he wanted to be here… he was willing to be coached hard and wasn’t trying to gain power in the organization. We had every reason to believe he would stay long term if we made reasonable progress. With Donovan we could make great progress and still have him bounce… basically I think you have to make the western conference finals to have a chance… I have no reason to believe we are anywhere near that after the Rudy trade.

If you think we shouldn’t consider trading Donovan as realistic then keeping him and making sound moves for the franchise is equally unrealistic… Royce was off the trade block this deadline for fear of pissing off donovan… Rudy is on the trade block… so does it sound like we are gonna make good moves? Every move will be with Donovan in mind… if we are talking unrealistic scenarios I prefer the one where we move everyone… it’s much better than what is coming.

There's a sliding scale on both ends. You can't take the slight improvement one end and only compare that to the total loss disaster scenario on the negative end. There's a lot of scenarios on either end of differing impact.

We had no reason to believe we could be a good team when Hayward left either. It is different because Rudy was more likely to stay, but Donovan is also under contract for a long time and can't leave even if he wanted to. Rudy would have prevented us from possibly tanking at all, and that seems to be the main motivation here. But the point I was making is that the return from the Gobert trade is not the only reason it could be good to wait. There are several ways it could turn out positive to be more patient.

On the last point, exactly. My scenario where we make sound moves is unrealistic, and so is your scenario where we trade Rudy for Donovan and then proceed to trade Donovan himself. If you're arguing your plan against what will actually happen, I'm right there with you. But I still believe that given the ability to make decisions, I would be more patient with Don trade and have less urgency to tank.
 
The great news is @KqWIN is we will absolutely get to see your scenario play out and experience it because Ryan doesn’t have the guts to blow it up in the same year we host the AS game.
It’s understandable. I get why you want an AS on the team of the city hosting the AS game, just more damaging overall.
 
Black swan was meant to evaluate catastrophic failure potential… if there is a 10% chance Donovan plays better and has more trade value and a 10% risk he sustains a major injury… the return on those percentages is not the same… you could lose the whole thing.

If you want to live in lala land where we trade this enormously valuable player that you say will make Atlanta way better than they are now and recoup that value and more while also trading on our aging core players for younger different versions (something we’ve kinda been trying to do already without success) then by all means go ahead.

I’m not exaggerating… I gave a pretty optimistic scenario and you said you still didn’t think Donovan would stay under that scenario.

If we go the keep Donovan route every trade we make will be to make Don happy… that’s not hypothetical that is reality. It will be tough to move Rudy and also improve the roster given the absence of other assets and limitations we are self imposing. Every is pointing to Atlanta… what if they saw our struggles and take their assets elsewhere… you’ve said they have a lot of different combinations of players and contracts… that means they are pretty flexible… they don’t have to deal with us. In our make believe scenarios let’s say they don’t value Rudy like you and I do and won’t go higher than Clint and Collins… then what? Meanwhile Donovan hears you had a chance to get his buddy and passed…

Trade Rudy in conference to GS, Dallas, or Memphis? Well that is gonna really make Donovan happy… so now it’s what Toronto and Charlotte?

Anyway… it’s not going to be easy and might not even be possible to trade Rudy and get equal win now pieces… you go ahead and bet on the upside that something magic happens. The next 12 months with Donovan calling shots will be so fun… hopefully he doesn’t bring us Westbrook like GM Lebron did… I’m sure he will stick around and help with all the collateral damage that can come from giving a player too much say in what the franchise does.
At the Grizz, we take Rudy tomorrow. And we become a real contender immediatly !!
I don't believe Don will ask for a Rudy trade for 2 reasons. He kwow he is a terrible defender and it will be shown even more if Rudy go.
And if he did, it will put a lot of pressure to succeed and we all know that Don does not match well with pressure....
For me, they will both stay unless we got a fantastic offer from another team. I do not not believe it will happen.
 
I like Don and don’t think he’s nearly the defensive dunce that everyone else does. He just needs to be realigned. He has been a part of 3 or 4 top-3 defenses with this TEAM (yes, Rudy, bla bla — it still takes a team effort to be a top defense — re: this year). I suspect his priorities became warped by quin.

That said, part of me hopes he leaves just so the toxic fans who are more interested in bitching about personalities or “he wants to leave” can find peace (more likely the whipping boy just becomes someone else, someone who has done far less for this franchise than Don, and maybe that’s more reasonable for both parties, but I digress).

And for those who wanna dump him simply because of the not-liking-Utah rumors… News flash, nobody ****ing likes Utah. Not even the people from Utah. At least 5 of my friends from high school and I couldn’t wait to bolt for greener pastures where we weren’t as socially isolated because we weren’t white-washed or part of the church. It’s normal, Utah’s just not for everyone. He’s not going to want to stay forever, but if he says he’s committed (to S. Todd I think I saw), there’s no reason to keep obsessing over this stuff. Trade him for asset or roster reasons, but not because he doesn’t like Utah.

Can’t believe we have to endure 2 more months of these (or the “Donovan Mitchell is a terrible person” type) threads lol
 
I like Don and don’t think he’s nearly the defensive dunce that everyone else does. He just needs to be realigned. He has been a part of 3 or 4 top-3 defenses with this TEAM (yes, Rudy, bla bla — it still takes a team effort to be a top defense — re: this year). I suspect his priorities became warped by quin.

That said, part of me hopes he leaves just so the toxic fans who are more interested in bitching about personalities or “he wants to leave” can find peace (more likely the whipping boy just becomes someone else, someone who has done far less for this franchise than Don, and maybe that’s more reasonable for both parties, but I digress).

And for those who wanna dump him simply because of the not-liking-Utah rumors… News flash, nobody ****ing likes Utah. Not even the people from Utah. At least 5 of my friends from high school and I couldn’t wait to bolt for greener pastures where we weren’t as socially isolated because we weren’t white-washed or part of the church. It’s normal, Utah’s just not for everyone. He’s not going to want to stay forever, but if he says he’s committed (to S. Todd I think I saw), there’s no reason to keep obsessing over this stuff. Trade him for asset or roster reasons, but not because he doesn’t like Utah.

Can’t believe we have to endure 2 more months of these (or the “Donovan Mitchell is a terrible person” type) threads lol
I couldn't agree more. A bunch of these toxic people around here won't admit it, but they are still insecure about how everything with Hayward went down. And some of the media members are in the exact same boat. Everybody sees the current culture of the NBA with stars bolting. We all got spurned by Hayward, and these media members are trying to act like Nostradamus when there has been zero concrete evidence that Don wants out or will want out.

Donovan has a contract and has been so much more committed to this franchise than Hayward ever was. I don't want Don to leave because that just gives toxic fans more fuel. And I also want Don to be given the chance to be the focal point of the team. He's still young, and we don't know how good we can be if we build around him.
 
You don't want him here doesn't mean we don't want him here.

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I personally would like to see him gone. He doesn’t play defense, small, which is probably why he’s so inefficient, and even worse at the end of games, and when he’s doubled, which is usually all the time in crunch time, he usually ends up forcing up a low IQ, low percentage shot, instead of making the correct pass. Simply put, he loses *** games as much as he helps us win games if not more.
 
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