Donovan refuses to say whether or not he wants to be in Utah moving forward

[Handlogten's Heros]

We have our 2023 pick but not our 2024 pick.

2023 is also a very good draft and the reality is that you might need to be involved in a few lotteries to get the guy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

2024 is protected 1-10. Waiting one year might actually be more beneficial because protections are going to be extinguished after 2026. If you're planning on being bad for 3 years consecutively, it's better to do so 2024-2026 than 2023-2025.

Only top 8 protected in 2026. If your top end talent hasn’t pulled you out of the mud by then you have probably effed up. Especially under your 15 year info gathering plan.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I mean, am I wrong that you put a priority on tanking Donovan so we can tank? I don't see urgency in trading Don or urgency in tanking. I don't fear a drop in Don's value, and the tanking option is literally always present for every franchise at every point in their history. Why would his value go up? That's obvious and I've already stated this. Donovan could get better, or teams can fold the longer you wait and you receive a better offer.

The Rockets did not take a worse trade to stay competitive. If they wanted to remain completive, they would have taken Ben Simmons instead of Oladipo and a boat load of picks/pick swaps. They even went as far as to decline on taking Allen and Lavert so they could get more picks. I really don't know what to say here except that this assertion is hysterical. The Rockets had no hopes of staying competitive and obviously didn't have plans to be competitive anytime soon.

If no one wants Gobert, it doesn't really have any bearing on the Mitchell decision. I mentioned ATL package 1)because it's actually a realistic trade partner and 2) because I think they have assets to provide the best value. I didn't mention them because it keeps us semi competitive. I simply think you take the best package, and simply don't believe the picks package from DAL with Luka and Rudy locked up is a good package. Maybe that's the best you get, but again if that's all you get it doesn't really effect the Mitchell decision too much. If Rudy's trade value is low, that effects all trades in any direction.

As far as gathering information, obviously I'm talking about the assets and players we'd be acquiring and not the one's we'd be trading out. I really thought that was obvious. If you want trade for a good young player, you might want to know how that works out before you make the Donovan trade. I expect a complete overhaul no matter what, and I think it would be interesting to see Don play with a bunch of fresh faces. Do I think it will work out great? Probably not. I think the most likely scenario is that we're not that good and Don demands out anyways. I've never hid from this and have acknowledged this possibility several times over. But it's definitely worth a look. I mean....we just saw how this play out a few years ago. It was good that we didn't trade away Rudy right away because we lucked out with Mitchell. That lead to a golden championship window that we just happened to squander. If you hold onto Don and wait it out, you're not tied down to finding the next Donovan. You can always pivot to tanking, you cannot pivot back to having Donovan Mitchell on your team.

I just don't see the large opportunity cost in running with Don+new additions for a year. If we tank now versus in one year, I don't really see the difference except that we can plan on getting out of the tank one year later. Not a big deal to me, but I do understand the appeal of wanting the tanking team. It's very comfortable to be a die hard fan of a tanking team.

The reason they didn’t do the Ben Simmons deal had nothing to do with the trade return… if you don’t know why they didn’t do that deal you are a moron.

The oladipo deal was done in part for salary flexibility but there was also talk they were trying to figure out how to be competitive. They didn’t take Allen because they already had Wood. They honestly didn’t get a great return imo… and part of the reason was they were backed into a corner and Harden demanded a trade and he only had a year and a half on his deal… I imagine they’d have done a whole lot better had they traded him the year prior but sure.

Again… for the 10th time we don’t have to trade him now… I would see what the offers are and if it is 100%+ of what you can get next year I move him now. His value will not go up… he will have 33% less time on his deal. He’d have to get a whole hell of a lot better to make up that delta… and why would he take this massive leap now? It’s pretty rare.

Why do we want to gather info on young vets with Donovan… when he’s out on a year? How useful is that info? Most of the guys we’d get in the win now mode are pretty much known commodities.

It’s one thing to be on the @LoPo corner where you are trying to keep him for a few more years and convince him to stay… it’s another to say we should trade him this year just do it next year when he surely asks out. Like wut? Okay… makes sense… teams definitely won’t low ball us then and that year of Donovan rumors will be so damned fun… we will have less pressure to do a deal the and more time to wait it out for the best return.

The reasons to keep Donovan one year and try are primarily business reason that line Ryans pockets and I’m good not doing that.

 

[LoPo]

@Handlogten's Heros

I'm fine trading Donovan in a year if that's what's best for the franchise.

I just don't see any reason to trade him this summer unless he wants go. Don has literally been in Rudy's shadow his entire time here. Our roster doesn't compliment Don or Rudy all that well, but I think from a business sense and a play style sense, it's worth it for the franchise to give Don a chance as the team focus on the court even if just for a year.

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[KqWIN]

The reason they didn’t do the Ben Simmons deal had nothing to do with the trade return… if you don’t know why they didn’t do that deal you are a moron.

The oladipo deal was done in part for salary flexibility but there was also talk they were trying to figure out how to be competitive. They didn’t take Allen because they already had Wood. They honestly didn’t get a great return imo… and part of the reason was they were backed into a corner and Harden demanded a trade and he only had a year and a half on his deal… I imagine they’d have done a whole lot better had they traded him the year prior but sure.

Again… for the 10th time we don’t have to trade him now… I would see what the offers are and if it is 100%+ of what you can get next year I move him now. His value will not go up… he will have 33% less time on his deal. He’d have to get a whole hell of a lot better to make up that delta… and why would he take this massive leap now? It’s pretty rare.

Why do we want to gather info on young vets with Donovan… when he’s out on a year? How useful is that info? Most of the guys we’d get in the win now mode are pretty much known commodities.

It’s one thing to be on the @LoPo corner where you are trying to keep him for a few more years and convince him to stay… it’s another to say we should trade him this year just do it next year when he surely asks out. Like wut? Okay… makes sense… teams definitely won’t low ball us then and that year of Donovan rumors will be so damned fun… we will have less pressure to do a deal the and more time to wait it out for the best return.

The reasons to keep Donovan one year and try are primarily business reason that line Ryans pockets and I’m good not doing that.

And there weren't concern's about Oldaipo's ability to keep the Rockets competitive? Come on now. That trade had nothing to do with staying competitive. Please be charitable in this discussion, that trade package was as future facing as possible. There are zero people who believe that trade was made to stay competitive. Especially not in the Rockets organization. 4 future FRP, 3 pick swaps, and Oldapio is not a splitting the difference between being competitive and tanking lmao.

We don't have to trade him now? I completely agree. If that's how you feel, we're on board. We don't need to trade him now and we don't have to tank right now. There shouldn't be urgency to trade Don because the benefits of trading Don are still there if you keep him, and the risk of his value dropping is extremely low. Even when players adamantly and publicly want to be traded it has benefited teams to wait. There should be no rush to tank as there are benefits to waiting. I have a much higher priority on waiting and being patient with the Donovan situation than hurrying in the tank. Don is the guy you tank for. As long as he wants to be here you keep him here. I think his value is the same. There is a low chance he develops further, even lower chance that his value drops.

If those young players work out, maybe it does keep Don around a couple more years. I had no delusions that he will play here beyond this contract, but he's on a long term contract. I would say that it's most likely that we don't do well with those pieces and Mitchell wants to leave soon, but I'm willing to give it a shot and see what we're left with after the overhaul. Worst case scenario he leaves in one year and then you start tanking. No big deal.

If we hit on another cornerstone piece and he still wants to leave, you might be looking for a different type of trade. If John Collins or whoever turns out to be really freaking good and Don still wants out. You can trade Don for another good player instead of trading him for pure picks and then having to trade your other cornerstone because you only have one. Of course it's beneficial to see how those pieces play out. Please do not keep confusing the new pieces with our existing pieces. Once again, I thought this was obvious. But when I say that it's good to evaluate I'm talking about evaluating the new pieces.

The reasons for tanking immediately are still there if you keep Don. The reason for keeping Don are not just monetary. The last 3 years were the best championship window we've had/will have for a very long time. Would have not even had a chance to get going had we traded Rudy immediately.

Only top 8 protected in 2026. If your top end talent hasn’t pulled you out of the mud by then you have probably effed up. Especially under your 15 year info gathering plan.

Great, so if you successfully pulled out of the mud by then (not a guarantee even if you land a big fish) you lose that pick. You're a big proponent of having to "stay down" for long enough....but to your point you can't be down there forever. It has to end at some point, so what's the balance there? 3 years? If it's exactly 3 years, you keep your pick if its 24-26 and lose a pick if it's 23-25. If it's not 3 years, then you still don't lose anything by waiting. No downside to waiting a year other than you waited a year to tank.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And there weren't concern's about Oldaipo's ability to keep the Rockets competitive? Come on now. That trade had nothing to do with staying competitive. Please be charitable in this discussion, that trade package was as future facing as possible. There are zero people who believe that trade was made to stay competitive. Especially not in the Rockets organization. 4 future FRP, 3 pick swaps, and Oldapio is not a splitting the difference between being competitive and tanking lmao.

We don't have to trade him now? I completely agree. If that's how you feel, we're on board. We don't need to trade him now and we don't have to tank right now. There shouldn't be urgency to trade Don because the benefits of trading Don are still there if you keep him, and the risk of his value dropping is extremely low. Even when players adamantly and publicly want to be traded it has benefited teams to wait. There should be no rush to tank as there are benefits to waiting. I have a much higher priority on waiting and being patient with the Donovan situation than hurrying in the tank. Don is the guy you tank for. As long as he wants to be here you keep him here. I think his value is the same. There is a low chance he develops further, even lower chance that his value drops.

If those young players work out, maybe it does keep Don around a couple more years. I had no delusions that he will play here beyond this contract, but he's on a long term contract. I would say that it's most likely that we don't do well with those pieces and Mitchell wants to leave soon, but I'm willing to give it a shot and see what we're left with after the overhaul. Worst case scenario he leaves in one year and then you start tanking. No big deal.

If we hit on another cornerstone piece and he still wants to leave, you might be looking for a different type of trade. If John Collins or whoever turns out to be really freaking good and Don still wants out. You can trade Don for another good player instead of trading him for pure picks and then having to trade your other cornerstone because you only have one. Of course it's beneficial to see how those pieces play out. Please do not keep confusing the new pieces with our existing pieces. Once again, I thought this was obvious. But when I say that it's good to evaluate I'm talking about evaluating the new pieces.

The reasons for tanking immediately are still there if you keep Don. The reason for keeping Don are not just monetary. The last 3 years were the best championship window we've had/will have for a very long time. Would have not even had a chance to get going had we traded Rudy immediately.



Great, so if you successfully pulled out of the mud by then (not a guarantee even if you land a big fish) you lose that pick. You're a big proponent of having to "stay down" for long enough....but to your point you can't be down there forever. It has to end at some point, so what's the balance there? 3 years? If it's exactly 3 years, you keep your pick if its 24-26 and lose a pick if it's 23-25. If it's not 3 years, then you still don't lose anything by waiting. No downside to waiting a year other than you waited a year to tank.

Only stay down until the young talent pulls you up… been clear on that… teams get in trouble cutting off their future assets for a good player that doesn’t have the same timeline or limits their ceiling… the Kings are masters of this.

You are exaggerating the chance that one of the guys we get in a win now trad will become a corner piece… John Collins is a prime example… hasn’t really shown he’s anything more than a good starter but he dunks real good and had a solid playoff so he’s viewed as having some great upside. He plays with a guy who is a much better passer than anyone on or projected to be on our roster… it’s more likely he has less value than more in a year… just by being the same player his value declines because that wishful thinking upside shrinks.

You are also really downplaying the chance that Donovan’s value declines and maybe it takes a catastrophic decline. What are the chances he has a year long injury at some point in the season? I’d say like 3-5% on the low end… and his value goes down in half? More probably.

There is also the chance he has a similar season to this year… but that we win a whole lot less and the view becomes he’s an “empty calorie” guy. That he’s Zach Lavine before he started winning a little. There are also starting to be some rumors/smoke that he is a handful off the court… take it for what it’s worth and a lot of guys are a handful.

He also has gotten slightly better each year… what if his shooting dips a bit in a new system under a new coach… now what.

I simplify my approach with a one liner “ trade both or trade neither” but there are caveats to that of course. I think they are likely trading Rudy almost no matter what… we are in a bit of a corner and that seems to be where this is headed. If we do that and then can get a 100% of what we can get next year for Donovan I’d likely do it… I believe the extra year on the deal does matter… the view he still hasn’t tapped his full potential is baked in to his current value and will disappear when he is essentially the same player on a less good team… so I think we actually could find we will get 110% or 120% in value and may get a godfather 150% type offer.

I think some of these huge draft pick offers are also going to start looking quite bad for the teams that traded the picks and teams will get gunshy doing those types of deals… NO deal for AD is starting to look pretty bad for the Lakers (even though the got a title). Clips deal for PG starts to look worse and worse as those close picks were supposed to be late 20s and they already will get a lotto pick… the Brooklyn picks now look like they could be much more juicy than originally anticipated… nba trade value of picks seems to shift like crazy… used to be over valued and never change hands… now teams will give away their control of their draft picks for 5+ years if they think they have an okay shot at getting in the title contention mix. Maybe those views don’t change…

So there are a lot of things that can bother the downside that you are dismissing… it’s similar to the black swan theory on the economy… you can’t pinpoint the one thing that will cause a crash and their individual chances are low but collectively they add up to be real… and just cause you can’t see the black swan doesn’t mean it’s not there… if conditions are right anyone of these “outlier” issues hits and your return. The downside risk is so much more likely than the upside opportunity.

The info gathering on new young players is also more likely in a scenario where we aren’t trying to maximize wins… it isn’t dependent on Donovan… if we trade Donovan then traded for Collins he’d likely have more opportunities to increase his value and numbers as well.

I’m good here… my view is it’s better to move on from both or keep ‘em both and build that way… I think it has a lot of merit. You want to keep Donovan and wait a year… fine.

 

[Sean]

The man went and cried in the locker room after giving minimal effort the entire series lmao. He wants everything handed to him.

Rudy cried?

 

[Sean]

I think it's hilarious this post's headline is a complete lie and some dumb ****s are still acting like it's real. Mitchell literally said he wanted to remain in Utah but the John Hinkley-like posters here are still complaining. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.

I wonder how some of you even function in the real world.

 

[oneye]

Rudy cried?

The point isn’t that he cried, the point is he cried after giving half assed effort the entire series. Yeah, you’ll generally lose when the star of the team plays an entire series like he doesn’t give a ****. Had he poured some effort into the series, cry your eyes out, but with the way he approached that series, save your tears.

 

[Sean]

The point isn’t that he cried, the point is he cried after giving half assed effort the entire series. Yeah, you’ll generally lose when the star of the team plays an entire series like he doesn’t give a ****. Had he poured some effort into the series, cry your eyes out, but with the way he approached that series, save your tears.

The point is I'm starting to think Don rejected your sexual advances and you've never gotten over it.

You're creepy af dude.

 

[oneye]

I think it's hilarious this post's headline is a complete lie and some dumb ****s are still acting like it's real. Mitchell literally said he wanted to remain in Utah but the John Hinkley-like posters here are still complaining. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.

I wonder how some of you even function in the real world.

He has been given every chance to directly address the rumors, stop pretending his answer to Tim wasn’t the biggest pile of garbage it could have possibly been.

 

[oneye]

The point is I'm starting to think Don rejected your sexual advances and you've never gotten over it.

You're creepy af dude.

I will adamantly want the douche off my team, until the douche is off my team. Play defense, and shoot better than 20% from 3 as the franchise “super star” then tell me about how much you want to win. If you can’t do that, no one wants to hear your sob story or see you pitying yourself.