El Paso Shooting

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Scat, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    I wonder what would happen if the word socialism didn't exist and was replaced with something else.
    Like instead of "I don't like those socialists"
    It was " I don't like those people who want better healthcare, affordable college, people to be treated equally, and clean air/oceans"

    Does it look different to people or have different meaning?
     
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  2. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    Oh I know. But I live in Trump territory and know a good amount of people who have a similar stance.
     
  3. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    This is an insightful read, profiling 9 Hispanic Americans, and how the El Paso massacre has changed their lives.

    'It's real. It's violent': After El Paso, Latinos across America live in fear
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...shooting-latino-hispanic-reaction/2027932001/

    The mass shooting in El Paso was one of the deadliest hate crimes in American history against Latinos.
    The shooter left a manifesto with anti-Hispanic and anti-immigrant sentiment.

    Now, the fear among Latino people is palpable.

    Latinos are calling this a turning point. The shooting, they say, has peeled back the hate behind words they've tried to ignore. It has sliced open the racism many grew up learning to navigate.

    How do you turn the other cheek, they wonder, when the weapon is loaded with bullets?

    The killing of 22 people in a border city has left them fearful of living in their own country: because of the brown color of their skin, because they speak Spanish or because of where they or their families were born.

    Dads are telling their daughters, “Por favor, cuidase, mija,” pleading with them to be careful at work, keep quiet, have an exit plan. School is starting and along with it, some mothers are worrying if they should let their children speak Spanish at school, let them walk to class alone. Friends are telling their amigas, the ones who speak Spanish with an accent, the ones who are darker, who are both immigrant and Latino: Be aware of your surroundings.

    Here, Latino and Latina voices from across America tell us in their own words what it is to live in fear.
     
  4. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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  5. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    So what is the penalty for doing this? And Florida has some of the worst gun laws around. Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re not allowed to confiscate his weapons. Someone like that should lose their 2nd amendment indefinitely.
     
  6. str8line

    str8line Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner

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  7. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Yep. What’s funny is that the right has had the White House and senate for nearly 4 years now and yet they’re still angry “victims.” You could give them all 3 branches of government for the next 50 years and they’d still whine about being victims, as if they’d been powerless instead.
     
  8. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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  9. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Funny, it sounds a lot like you agree with Chuck and Nancy's positions.
     
  10. Zombie

    Zombie Well-Known Member

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    It's also really not accurate at all to suggest that Democrats are against border security. They believe there are better ways than a wall to do it, and don't spend their time vilifying immigrants.

    If you want a good example of parties changing their views look at what policies each party supported in the 90's. Republicans were far more supportive of immigration, the Democrats not so much.
     
  11. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    Back when they for reasonable border control, yeah. Obama as well. Never agreed with a wall or barrier like they did though. Yesterday border protection was common sense today its considered white supremacists, Nazi, terrorism by some people who have hate agendas.

    WASHINGTON — As a senator, Barack Obama once offered measured praise for the border control legislation that would become the basis for one of Donald Trump’s first acts as president.

    “The bill before us will certainly do some good,” Obama said on the Senate floor in October 2006. He praised the legislation, saying it would provide “better fences and better security along our borders” and would “help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country.”

    Obama was talking about the Secure Fence Act of 2006, legislation authorizing a barrier along the southern border passed into law with the support of 26 Democratic senators including party leaders like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and ChuckSchumer.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...ieCBXjXVxO63pLMTe9O/story.html?outputType=amp
     
  12. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    YOu seem to have a habit of lumping people's opinions together into a very small number of very specific categories. Specifically on border protection, for example (as opposed to the border wall), what has Schumer/Pelosi said that you disagree with?
     
  13. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with their flip flopping. As I pointed out they voted for a barrier at one point and now they use the barrier as some crazy anti-Trump narrative.

    Where were these two when Obama was deporting record numbers?
     
  14. Zombie

    Zombie Well-Known Member

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    You're still doing it. A wall =//= some fencing as part of a secure border. You'll note that Democrats aren't clamoring to tear down every bit of fence currently on the border.
     
  15. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    I see no difference between a fence and a wall. Both are meant to keep people out. Today we hear how immoral that is.

    So you are ok with a fence?
     
  16. Zombie

    Zombie Well-Known Member

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    I'm OK with fencing yes. There are places where fencing is useful, near port of entries for example. The problem with the wall as Donald has proposed it is that it would be a continuous barrier covering the entire border. This raises ecological concerns, financial concerns, as well as concerns about private property rights along the border. It's also just a bad look to have an impenetrable wall separating us from the rest of the continent purely from a symbolic point of view.
     
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  17. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't care much about a barrier as stated but I do find the financial discussion pretty stupid. Billion upon billions are spent on enforcing border security alone. We waste money all over the place as well and I hear crickets.

    I will say that I think a reason our borders are being flooded is because if Trump does get his way it will be a lot harder to cross or use the catch and release laws. These immigrants know this so they are getting here before it happens. If it does anyways. Right now neither party are doing anything to help and using this opportunity for political gain.

    Once again. Where was anybody when Obama depotorted record amounts? Nobody called ICE terrorist then. Do people really think that when ICE raided and deported 385,000 people annually (more than Trumps 226,000) that kids weren't being put in jails? Jails and cages that separated kids from parents? It would be stupid and irresponsible to put kids with adults. People seem to think the Obama administration treated the illegals like saints and kept them in Holiday inn Express. No it was jails and cages. Yet no outrage or idiotic Nazi white supremacy yelling then by these hypocrites.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ax...ama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html
     
  18. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to see us focus on:

    A. Resolving the DREAMERS situation. These guys were brought over as children. Deporting them now would be stupid (we’ve invested in their Edu) and immoral.

    B. Greatly strengthening the investigations and punishments for those business owners who thumb their noses at our laws. Stop targeting Jose Sixpack; focus on Uncle Pennybags, who cares more about money than respecting our laws.

    C. This is a long term project, but I’d like to see us support our southern neighbors more. As long as they’re living in countries with life expectancies half of ours, there’s going to be surges of refugees and immigrants (some of it illegal) coming here.
     
  19. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    The fence/wall argument is just so stupid. Fact is the VAST majority of illegal immigrants get here by airplane or a fully legal border crossing then just refuse to go back when their permission (visa or whatever) runs out. A bigger fence won't do jack-**** to impact illegal immigration. Give me a ****ing break.
     
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  20. Zombie

    Zombie Well-Known Member

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    This is a good point and one I considered adding to my post.

    Just from a practical standpoint, it's not a good solution for the problem of illegal immigration, especially when you consider the enormous cost to build and maintain such a structure.
     

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