Election Count Issues

[fishonjazz]

One role of a free press has always been to serve as democracy’s watchdog. And having an adversarial press has been the lot of every president. Far better than a fully compliant press. As for the cause of “dumping Trump”, that was in part the cause of people who recognized that, on a fundamental level, Trump was waging a war on human Reason. Hence the many conspiracy theories he has hatched or promoted. He elevates irrationality over reason. His war on science has been a part of that attack on human reason. You’re not ignorant of history. And examining history illustrates that there are times when irrational forces are in ascendency. We live at such a time. And Trump, as president, encouraged the darker angels of human nature. Not once did he speak as a president for all Americans. He encouraged division of Americans. He encouraged “us vs them”, where “them” was any American that did not support Trump. He equated himself with the state, in that respect. Of course there is bias. Bias in the service of a just cause, and bias in the cause of evil.

Good post

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[babe]

One role of a free press has always been to serve as democracy’s watchdog. And having an adversarial press has been the lot of every president. Far better than a fully compliant press. As for the cause of “dumping Trump”, that was in part the cause of people who recognized that, on a fundamental level, Trump was waging a war on human Reason. Hence the many conspiracy theories he has hatched or promoted. He elevates irrationality over reason. His war on science has been a part of that attack on human reason. You’re not ignorant of history. And examining history illustrates that there are times when irrational forces are in ascendency. We live at such a time. And Trump, as president, encouraged the darker angels of human nature. Not once did he speak as a president for all Americans. He encouraged division of Americans. He encouraged “us vs them”, where “them” was any American that did not support Trump. He equated himself with the state, in that respect. Of course there is bias. Bias in the service of a just cause, and bias in the cause of evil.

The problem here with your idealized "free press" is that ownership has bias, always and forever. We had a "free press"during the Civil War that hated Lincoln, and we had a "free press" involved in the deliberate incitement "Remember the Maine" that brought the US into Imperialism, with British smiles galore, when we went to war with Spain and took Cuba and the Philippines.

You glorify "interests" pursuing an agenda. You're not willing to be honest about any facts.

You believe "conspiracy theories" about the opposition your agenda.

In a climate of hogwash, you are happy to be in the mix.

 

[babe]

Like client, Flynn, like attorney, Powell.

Trump’s Lawyer Sidney Powell Is Hardcore QAnon

Her performance at Thursday's press conference was virtually a recitation of QAnon’s greatest hits.

www.vice.com

Maybe I've have to google QAnon or something. If the Left is calling it something bad, it probably is poking at some of the Left's open sores.

It didn't take me long to realize anyone calling themselves a "fact checker" is a liar out the gate. Used to be oh twenty five years ago the internet looked like an open source public press where anyone could get away with saying anything. Now it's being turned into another "Pravda".

 

[fishonjazz]

The problem here with your idealized "free press" is that ownership has bias, always and forever. We had a "free press"during the Civil War that hated Lincoln, and we had a "free press" involved in the deliberate incitement "Remember the Maine" that brought the US into Imperialism, with British smiles galore, when we went to war with Spain and took Cuba and the Philippines.

You glorify "interests" pursuing an agenda. You're not willing to be honest about any facts.

You believe "conspiracy theories" about the opposition your agenda.

In a climate of hogwash, you are happy to be in the mix.

Look we get it. You prefer a press that is compliant to the presidency..... If the president happens to be a right leaning republican

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[olden_undercover]

The problem here with your idealized "free press" is that ownership has bias, always and forever. We had a "free press"during the Civil War that hated Lincoln, and we had a "free press" involved in the deliberate incitement "Remember the Maine" that brought the US into Imperialism, with British smiles galore, when we went to war with Spain and took Cuba and the Philippines.

You glorify "interests" pursuing an agenda. You're not willing to be honest about any facts.

You believe "conspiracy theories" about the opposition your agenda.

In a climate of hogwash, you are happy to be in the mix.

...and so are you, whether you can admit it or not, and assuming you are aware of it to begin with. It's ironic-- these three accusations you just threw at Red describe you so perfectly. Are you aware of that?

Look, nobody here is tapped into some sparkling source of purely objective information, or even a greater share of it than the rest of us, and that includes you, friend. And yet, here you persist with this relentless tone that somehow you are the only person with the ability to really see through the smoke and make the best sense of <insert topic, but usually related to politics>. Caveat: If you do have better information than the rest of us, please-- raise us all up by sharing it so we can have a level conversation with you for once (personally, I love it when I get to explore how wrong I've been about something). Because otherwise, honestly, despite all of the words and the giant, smoking clandestine hat you're proudly wearing, it's become super-obvious you're just another far-right conspiracist believing with all his soul that Democrats are evil and Republicans are stoically bearing the standard of salvation for all of humanity. The fact you articulate it in a usually creative/educated fashion is something, but it doesn't change the fact, once thousands of words of talking down have been distilled into their essence.

 

[Gameface]

Flynn was one of Obama's people, a reliable democrat but with too much American backbone. He lost favor with Obama for opposing the Iran deal, and became one of Trump's reliable people.

I'd think it's an open question why he was targeted for a takedown..... for disloyalty to Obama or switching for Trump.

I believe he is an honest man framed by government agenaa wonk hacks, "because they can". Making an example of him is essential to maintaining discipline in the ranks.

In JFC, that job is probably supervised by some unthinking clapping clown who by reflex mocks anyone who says a wrong thing. Well, maybe there are two or three such clowns, who knows.

Flynn is an innocent and patriotic man.

He was targeted for being a ****ing traitor to the U.S.. The evidence is clear. He was selling us out.

 

[babe]

He was targeted for being a ****ing traitor to the U.S.. The evidence is clear. He was selling us out.

Not true. The investigation failed to come up with any evidence, the charges were political and baseless.

But hey, maybe you're right. You might be talking about some other "us" he sold out. The Resistance....... yes...... you're right. He sold out Obama's plan to prop up the Irankian terrorists.

If Flynn is the US patriot, Obama is the man who sold us out.

I think it's clear that you and this site's little group have a different view of America's future.

I would have considered Flynn a sellout if he hadn't switched sides.

 

[babe]

...and so are you, whether you can admit it or not, and assuming you are aware of it to begin with. It's ironic-- these three accusations you just threw at Red describe you so perfectly. Are you aware of that?

Look, nobody here is tapped into some sparkling source of purely objective information, or even a greater share of it than the rest of us, and that includes you, friend. And yet, here you persist with this relentless tone that somehow you are the only person with the ability to really see through the smoke and make the best sense of <insert topic, but usually related to politics>. Caveat: If you do have better information than the rest of us, please-- raise us all up by sharing it so we can have a level conversation with you for once (personally, I love it when I get to explore how wrong I've been about something). Because otherwise, honestly, despite all of the words and the giant, smoking clandestine hat you're proudly wearing, it's become super-obvious you're just another far-right conspiracist believing with all his soul that Democrats are evil and Republicans are stoically bearing the standard of salvation for all of humanity. The fact you articulate it in a usually creative/educated fashion is something, but it doesn't change the fact, once thousands of words of talking down have been distilled into their essence.

I am aware that you are just as conspiracy-theory based as Red is, yes.

As for raising the level of conversation in here, I see it's useless. I would have to convert you all from what you are, which in most cases is cemented in your basic interests, your jobs and friends, that it really would only be appropriate for me to start my own site where, if anyone were interested, they could come for a better level of information and analysis....... and perhaps some actual truth. But what is Truth?

Pretty sure no human mind has ever made such a connection of comprehension of the cosmos that belief, opinion, or even our science is what we imagine as "Truth".

But my God, 4 years ago this crew in JFC was calling Trump's election invalid and saying it is a high calling to save the World to get him impeached. I've seen people openly wishing they could shoot him, others saying they have fantastic dreams of blowing up the White House. It is known to some that there are quite an awesome number of paid mercenary "activists" well equipped and ready to rage in the streets.

I think you've been drinking the swill too long. If you're not willing to just march outta JFC and never come back, you're a lost soul. A well educated/indoctrinated lost soul but lost nevertheless.

You're plenty smart. You can figure things out in a better way yourself if you want to.

I don't think we have the ability to resolve every issue here, but the election count is the subject of this thread.

From now on, I would like to restrict comments to actual claims of issues, with some sort of evidence advanced in the post.

Other than that, I think I'll start harassing the mods with "Off-topic" complaints.

This post of yours is nothing but personal comments and is off-topic,.

 

[babe]

Look we get it. You prefer a press that is compliant to the presidency..... If the president happens to be a right leaning republican

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Compliance with Trump would be essentially the same evil as compliance with any other set power center.

I like Trump principally because I didn't like Hillary first. Now I don't like Biden. Most of our media has not been willing to tell the truth about Biden. Most of that same media has not been telling the truth about Trump.

It looks more like the real power is in the Media, or it's ownership. And that now includes a considerable Chinese investment, whose influence with other globalist-minded ownership, has made their own decision for America.

Anda the little peeps in JFC are just buying the load and helping to push the good work along.

 

[Gameface]

Not true. The investigation failed to come up with any evidence, the charges were political and baseless.

But hey, maybe you're right. You might be talking about some other "us" he sold out. The Resistance....... yes...... you're right. He sold out Obama's plan to prop up the Irankian terrorists.

If Flynn is the US patriot, Obama is the man who sold us out.

I think it's clear that you and this site's little group have a different view of America's future.

I would have considered Flynn a sellout if he hadn't switched sides.

Please explain the actual case against Flynn. If you're unbiased and you consider all evidence you should be able to articulate the actual things he's charged with, yes? You seem completely ignorant of the allegations and their basis. If you can't explain it then there's no reason to talk to you about this.

 

[fishonjazz]

Compliance with Trump would be essentially the same evil as compliance with any other set power center.

I like Trump principally because I didn't like Hillary first. Now I don't like Biden. Most of our media has not been willing to tell the truth about Biden. Most of that same media has not been telling the truth about Trump.

It looks more like the real power is in the Media, or it's ownership. And that now includes a considerable Chinese investment, whose influence with other globalist-minded ownership, has made their own decision for America.

Anda the little peeps in JFC are just buying the load and helping to push the good work along.

You didn't like Hillary and now you already don't like Biden.
The media has gotten to you pre-enmptively it seems in regards to Biden. Hasn't even had the job for a day yet and you already don't like him. That media bias.

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[olden_undercover]

I am aware that you are just as conspiracy-theory based as Red is, yes.

As for raising the level of conversation in here, I see it's useless. I would have to convert you all from what you are, which in most cases is cemented in your basic interests, your jobs and friends, that it really would only be appropriate for me to start my own site where, if anyone were interested, they could come for a better level of information and analysis....... and perhaps some actual truth. But what is Truth?

Pretty sure no human mind has ever made such a connection of comprehension of the cosmos that belief, opinion, or even our science is what we imagine as "Truth".

But my God, 4 years ago this crew in JFC was calling Trump's election invalid and saying it is a high calling to save the World to get him impeached. I've seen people openly wishing they could shoot him, others saying they have fantastic dreams of blowing up the White House. It is known to some that there are quite an awesome number of paid mercenary "activists" well equipped and ready to rage in the streets.

I think you've been drinking the swill too long. If you're not willing to just march outta JFC and never come back, you're a lost soul. A well educated/indoctrinated lost soul but lost nevertheless.

You're plenty smart. You can figure things out in a better way yourself if you want to.

I don't think we have the ability to resolve every issue here, but the election count is the subject of this thread.

From now on, I would like to restrict comments to actual claims of issues, with some sort of evidence advanced in the post.

Other than that, I think I'll start harassing the mods with "Off-topic" complaints.

This post of yours is nothing but personal comments and is off-topic,.

Riiight, and you totally should do that. But please do mention that post of mine was a response to your thinly-veiled personal comments directed at Red, for completeness, okay? It's awfully convenient to operate constantly from an assumed position of moral and intellectual superiority, and then dismiss anybody who calls it out as levying personal attacks at you. For my part, it's not personal-- it's asking you to make an honest attempt at giving everyone else the respect you give yourself in these conversations, in the spirit of actual dialog. If you have info the other person is missing, then link out to it or something instead of simply criticizing us as hopeless simpletons for choosing to believe something you do not. If that kind of outrageous request is offensive to you, I don't know what to say, but I can assure you it's in earnest and in the spirit of removing some of the ridiculous contention so we can have a better conversation. Your call, I guess.

Just wondering, as an aside... Where did you come up with the statement that I'm a conspiracist of any kind? My participation here is pretty minimal, and generally straight up the middle, even if I do lean a little left. Thinly-veiled personal comment, maybe? I think so.

As for the election count, since we're staying on-topic, I remain rooted in the pretty straightforward thought that believing that many fraudulent votes-- we're talking a margin of victory exceeding 6 million votes now-- fits pretty well with the definition of "far-fetched". I was willing to at least entertain some of it, but we're at a point now where the level of conspiracy would have to include literally everyone except Donald Trump, a smaller number of GOP allies than an incumbent president should hope for, and the Matlock-lite-brigade he's paying to who are using anecdotal testimonials from dubious sources to try and drag things out. At the end of the day, where is the evidence? Really, where is it?