Election Count Issues

[babe]

Riiight, and you totally should do that. But please do mention that post of mine was a response to your thinly-veiled personal comments directed at Red, for completeness, okay? It's awfully convenient to operate constantly from an assumed position of moral and intellectual superiority, and then dismiss anybody who calls it out as levying personal attacks at you. For my part, it's not personal-- it's asking you to make an honest attempt at giving everyone else the respect you give yourself in these conversations, in the spirit of actual dialog. If you have info the other person is missing, then link out to it or something instead of simply criticizing us as hopeless simpletons for choosing to believe something you do not. If that kind of outrageous request is offensive to you, I don't know what to say, but I can assure you it's in earnest and in the spirit of removing some of the ridiculous contention so we can have a better conversation. Your call, I guess.

Just wondering, as an aside... Where did you come up with the statement that I'm a conspiracist of any kind? My participation here is pretty minimal, and generally straight up the middle, even if I do lean a little left. Thinly-veiled personal comment, maybe? I think so.

As for the election count, since we're staying on-topic, I remain rooted in the pretty straightforward thought that believing that many fraudulent votes-- we're talking a margin of victory exceeding 6 million votes now-- fits pretty well with the definition of "far-fetched". I was willing to at least entertain some of it, but we're at a point now where the level of conspiracy would have to include literally everyone except Donald Trump, a smaller number of GOP allies than an incumbent president should hope for, and the Matlock-lite-brigade he's paying to who are using anecdotal testimonials from dubious sources to try and drag things out. At the end of the day, where is the evidence? Really, where is it?

You need more I's in your "riiiiight". Fish won't get it if you don't make that clear.

Hillary Clinton believed there was a "vast right-wing conspiracy" out against co-dependent abuser Bill.

Look, we've had 4 years of conspiracy theories run out as news everyday about Trump and anyone who could be dragged down around him...... The word has lost all useful meaning.

At this point I consider everyone is no longer in possession of reliable facts, and it's all theories. And to be useful theories, more useful than the direct "you're and idiot" theory that actually explains it all, we have to be nice and pretend that people who understandably united in the light of a coherent point of view are all conspiracists out to get the rest of the world.

Most of what you express just comes off about like that. You believe you have a reasoned, socially acceptable point of view shared by people who share your presumptions and accept the same authorities as facts.

You could be an tribesman/shaman burning special bark to cure some jungle fever, and have as much hope of saving the world as any progressive.

And people are the same the world over , with any belief.

 

[olden_undercover]

You need more I's in your "riiiiight". Fish won't get it if you don't make that clear.

Hillary Clinton believed there was a "vast right-wing conspiracy" out against co-dependent abuser Bill.

Look, we've had 4 years of conspiracy theories run out as news everyday about Trump and anyone who could be dragged down around him...... The word has lost all useful meaning.

At this point I consider everyone is no longer in possession of reliable facts, and it's all theories. And to be useful theories, more useful than the direct "you're and idiot" theory that actually explains it all, we have to be nice and pretend that people who understandably united in the light of a coherent point of view are all conspiracists out to get the rest of the world.

Most of what you express just comes off about like that. You believe you have a reasoned, socially acceptable point of view shared by people who share your presumptions and accept the same authorities as facts.

You could be an tribesman/shaman burning special bark to cure some jungle fever, and have as much hope of saving the world as any progressive.

And people are the same the world over , with any belief.

First off, wrong. I conferred with @fishonjazz before posting, and that is exactly the number of i's required. Please do not underestimate me-- nor overestimate him-- again.

Past that, this is just a bunch of cynical sadness I wish I hadn't read from you. Humanity is vibrant and good, and we generally do bad to each other when perspectives like this-- that we're idiotic sheep, and all the same, and need somebody to tell us so-- are given any kind of forum. I don't give a crap what anybody thinks about my point of view; I'm just trying to keep it grounded and centered, and challenge my assumptions when the frequent opportunities present themselves. It's an imperfect approach that doesn't keep me out of the fray, and you aren't above it either, because we are human beings living within society. Was there election fraud? God only knows, but it doesn't look like it without first doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics. You do know you're ultimately just a guy with a computer and opinions, though, right? That's all.

And I, by the way, am also just a guy-- a tribesman/shaman guy burning special bark to cure jungle fever. You nailed it. But damn if it isn't true that you really can never go back. It's still okay for me to believe we can and will do better as a country, though, and that both sides of the political aisle have lost any sense of practical purpose in pursuing that very American ideal. If saying so makes me progressive, I don't mind the label-- slap it on me, amigo.

 

[fishonjazz]

First off, wrong. I conferred with @fishonjazz before posting, and that is exactly the number of i's required. Please do not underestimate me-- nor overestimate him-- again.

Past that, this is just a bunch of cynical sadness I wish I hadn't read from you. Humanity is vibrant and good, and we generally do bad to each other when perspectives like this-- that we're idiotic sheep, and all the same, and need somebody to tell us so-- are given any kind of forum. I don't give a crap what anybody thinks about my point of view; I'm just trying to keep it grounded and centered, and challenge my assumptions when the frequent opportunities present themselves. It's an imperfect approach that doesn't keep me out of the fray, and you aren't above it either, because we are human beings living within society. Was there election fraud? God only knows, but it doesn't look like it without first doing a whole lot of mental gymnastics. You do know you're ultimately just a guy with a computer and opinions, though, right? That's all.

And I, by the way, am also just a guy-- a tribesman/shaman guy burning special bark to cure jungle fever. You nailed it. But damn if it isn't true that you really can never go back. It's still okay for me to believe we can and will do better as a country, though, and that both sides of the political aisle have lost any sense of practical purpose in pursuing that very American ideal. If saying so makes me progressive, I don't mind the label-- slap it on me, amigo.

Eloquent and right on the money.
Couldn't say it better.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

The problem here with your idealized "free press" is that ownership has bias, always and forever. We had a "free press"during the Civil War that hated Lincoln, and we had a "free press" involved in the deliberate incitement "Remember the Maine" that brought the US into Imperialism, with British smiles galore, when we went to war with Spain and took Cuba and the Philippines.

You glorify "interests" pursuing an agenda. You're not willing to be honest about any facts.

You believe "conspiracy theories" about the opposition your agenda.

In a climate of hogwash, you are happy to be in the mix.

Yes, but you see, if the “agenda” is to get that clown exposed for what he is, and do one’s damndest to prevent his re-election, that’s a just cause. Let me wax corny for a second. Journalists and historians exposing Trump for what he is are fighting for “truth, justice, and the American way”. (“Look! Up in the sky! It’s a bird, a plane. It’s Superman!!”. Well, I’m a grownup now, I’ll settle for Timothy Snyder. You want to know what Trump represented in our history? Read Snyder’s “On Tyranny”) And if you were honest about “any facts”, would you even have started this thread? Any chance you can take a long hard look at your own biases? Not likely, I would imagine, after seeing the numerous scatterbrained conspiracy theories you have run with on so many occasions, in so many threads.

 

[Gameface]

Yes, but you see, if the “agenda” is to get that clown exposed for what he is, and do one’s damndest to prevent his re-election, that’s a just cause. Let me wax corny for a second. Journalists and historians exposing Trump for what he is are fighting for “truth, justice, and the American way”. (“ Look! Up in the sky! It’s a bird, a plane. It’s Superman!!”. Well, I’m a grownup now, I’ll settle for Timothy Snyder. You want to know what Trump represented in our history? Read Snyder’s “On Tyranny”) And if you were honest about “any facts”, would you even have started this thread? Any chance you can take a long hard look at your own biases? Not likely, I would imagine, after seeing the numerous scatterbrained conspiracy theories you have run with on so many occasions, in so many threads.

I would enjoy seeing babe go back, find each of the conspiracy theories he's promoted and do a "where are they now" thread.

It's so easy for these "post truth" conspiracy theorists to spout this garbage. When it falls apart they just walk away and jump into the next conspiracy.

 

[candrew]

It looks more like the real power is in the Media, or it's ownership. And that now includes a considerable Chinese investment, whose influence with other globalist-minded ownership, has made their own decision for America.

Anda the little peeps in JFC are just buying the load and helping to push the good work along.

What comes out of Trump's mouth and primary sources such as The Mueller Report, his leaked tax returns etc. make it glaringly obvious that Trump is not fit to be president of anything. The media plays no role in my decision.

And I'm willing to go out on a limb and say I'm not the only one here that feels that way.

 

[str8line]

(Reuters) - As President Donald Trump seeks to discredit last week's election with baseless claims of voter fraud, his team has bombarded his supporters with requests for money to help pay for legal challenges to the results: “The Left will try to STEAL this election!” reads one text.

But any small-dollar donations from Trump's grassroots donors won't be going to legal expenses at all, according to a Reuters review of the legal language in the solicitations.
A donor would have to give more than $8,000 before any money goes to the "recount account" established to finance election challenges, including recounts and lawsuits over alleged improprieties, the fundraising disclosures show.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2020-11-11/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc

 

[fishonjazz]

What comes out of Trump's mouth and primary sources such as The Mueller Report, his leaked tax returns etc. make it glaringly obvious that Trump is not fit to be president of anything. The media plays no role in my decision.

And I'm willing to go out on a limb and say I'm not the only one here that feels that way.

Ya I thought trump was a piece of crap and unfit to be president long before 2016.
It's funny that babe thinks the media has so much influence over people who don't like trump.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

Here’s a fact. We just spent the past few weeks listening to this message from Trump, directed at Biden voters in several states: “I am going to do everything in my power to deny you the right to see your vote counted. Whatever it takes, I intend to deny the will of the people, and remain in this office. I will not be denied. YOU will be denied!”

What’s worse, don’t be surprised if an all out effort to steal elections becomes a normal weapon in the political strategy of Republicans. Those who decline will be labeled RINO’s.

 

[Avery]

I've still yet to hear a compelling argument of why this vast voting conspiracy orchestrating Biden's election seemingly thought it was a good idea to get smeared in the both House and Senate tossup races when they could have had the trifecta and pushed a liberal agenda without recourse.

Almost makes you feel like there's no conspiracy at all.

 

[olden_undercover]

I've still yet to hear a compelling argument of why this vast voting conspiracy orchestrating Biden's election seemingly thought it was a good idea to get smeared in the both House and Senate tossup races when they could have had the trifecta and pushed a liberal agenda without recourse.

Almost makes you feel like there's no conspiracy at all.

I'm gonna say it has something to do with God wanting to teach Dems a lesson by letting them see what happens if Biden is elected, but keeping his country safe by not allowing fraud attempts to succeed on the House and Senate levels. You've gotta get outside your own head to really make sense of it, but once you do, man-- it really starts to come together pretty seamlessly.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

One role of a free press has always been to serve as democracy’s watchdog. And having an adversarial press has been the lot of every president. Far better than a fully compliant press.

I assume this means you are horrified that this same press somehow didn't think to ask Joe Biden how he intended to govern during the campaign. To suggest that the press has been compliant with Joe is an understatement.