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Game Thread Feb 11, 2023 05:30PM MT: Jazz at Knicks

Added to Calendar: 02-11-23

Sexton held opposing players to 2/8 from the field last night as the primary defender.

So much for he was getting destroyed and playing terrible on defense. I really don’t know what people are watching sometimes.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
For the life of me I don’t get the logic in trading Vando, dude has only scratched the surface of what he might become. For god sakes he’s still a young developing player that was just starting to develop his 3point game and drive game. He is already a good passer with some handles, and good defensive instincts imagine how that will improve as he improves his body and gets stronger. Just stupid for a Yong rebuilding team to trade away a young developmental player like that with upside, and to make matters worse he’s a laker now.
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Someone said that Vando is like an undersized center... and that kinda struck me as good analogy. He is perfect size for 3&D but isnt really a perimeter player nor is he a post up player. His reluctance to take shots is the biggest tell/issue for me.

We do not need him as a PF without post play nor do we need him as the center. For him to become a perimeter threat, he would have to change the way he plays. Thats why they moved on from him.
 
HermanG said:
Someone said that Vando is like an undersized center... and that kinda struck me as good analogy. He is perfect size for 3&D but isnt really a perimeter player nor is he a post up player. His reluctance to take shots is the biggest tell/issue for me.

We do not need him as a PF without post play nor do we need him as the center. For him to become a perimeter threat, he would have to change the way he plays. Thats why they moved on from him.
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You and @Elizah Huge Can just go hid in your tunnel together that’s the dumbest response I’ve heard other than the plain he’s not good idiot response.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
You and @Elizah Huge Can just go hid in your tunnel together that’s the dumbest response I’ve heard other than the plain he’s not good idiot response.
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Hardy did play him exclusively at 4/5 on offense, he did not post up, he did not shoot much... and most importantly he was traded.

At least I got something to back my opinion, including the views of Jazz scouting and coaching departments as well as our FO.

Obviously you are smarter than all of them. Or an idiot.
 
Trade was made to clear cap room and get that 1st from LAL... Might be someone else was offered instead of Vando or not... But the trade needed to happen from Ainge's perspective... How we have been last two games I am not gonna wail after vando even he was fun to watch. We will get something better and he would not have been a long term starter around Lauri and kessler.
 
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HermanG said:
Someone said that Vando is like an undersized center... and that kinda struck me as good analogy. He is perfect size for 3&D but isnt really a perimeter player nor is he a post up player. His reluctance to take shots is the biggest tell/issue for me.

We do not need him as a PF without post play nor do we need him as the center. For him to become a perimeter threat, he would have to change the way he plays. Thats why they moved on from him.
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The problem is you are viewing him as a finished product and he isn't even close to that. That is my biggest issue with trading him. I think he will end up getting a lot better and most of the time you can't teach hustle. There are so many guys that could be really good if they played harder but it never happens. At some point over the next few years the game is going to slow down for him and when that happens I think you will see him really grow as a player. I feel the same way about Sexton as well. I always here people complaining about his defense but his primary issue is being overly aggressive rather than not trying. That kind of thing is very fixable and once he slows the hell down I think he has the potential to be an elite perimeter defender like Lowry and CP were because he has the quickness to stay in front of his guy and the strong lower body to not get bullied. Sexton has the most important that you need to be a good defender and that is effort and a lot of the time that can't be taught. We just saw it with Mitchell for years. The guy simply didn't want to put in the effort on that end of the court.
 
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OMG!! The only players on this team that post up in this offense is the guards namely Sexton and JC ROTFL you should stick to talking about things you know this is the era of position-less basketball. When was the last time a big on this team posted up, Millsap and Al? Shut it!!
 
Step-Back Hook said:
Trade was made to clear cap room and get that 1st from LAL... Might be someone else was offered instead of Vando or not... But the trade needed to happen from Ainge's perspective... How we have been last two games I am not gonna wail after vando even he was fun to watch. We will get something better and he would not have been a long term starter around Lauri and kessler.
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In my perspective we facilitated the Lakers and Wolves getting better all for what very easily could be a second rounder lakers and wolves are thinking thank god for the jazz making this easy
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
OMG!! The only players on this team that post up in this offense is the guards namely Sexton and JC ROTFL you should stick to talking about things you know this is the era of position-less basketball. When was the last time a big on this team posted up, Millsap and Al? Shut it!!
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Lmao just because we had Rudy who had no post game doesnt mean post up is dead. Jokic has sort of reinvented it even with being a playmaker from the post. Embiid and Jokic are both MVP level guys in contender teams who do it pretty often. Its not on the frequency of Malone but still, Jokic posts up on 25% of the situations that leads to him making plays, and scores 1.19 points per play (dishes a ton from high post as well).

Get back up to date by watching the 2 time MVP or reading some analysis on the current state of affairs:
fivethirtyeight.com

How NBA Teams Are Bringing The Post-Up Back To Life

The NBA is in the midst of an offensive explosion, with 14 of the best 15 historical offensive ratings for teams coming in the past four seasons. The Boston Cel…
fivethirtyeight.com fivethirtyeight.com

Also.. since you know so much and also feel Vando was gonna be good then explain to me how to infuse Vando into Hardy's perimeter heavy system with Kessler on the court. What does he do to facilitate or to at the very least space? Or what other value did he bring besides his hustle and ok perimeter defense (btw, he was a good wing defender but you pretty much need an elite one these days).
 
sip said:
The problem is you are viewing him as a finished product and he isn't even close to that. That is my biggest issue with trading him. I think he will end up getting a lot better and most of the time you can't teach hustle. There are so many guys that could be really good if they played harder but it never happens. At some point over the next few years the game is going to slow down for him and when that happens I think you will see him really grow as a player. I feel the same way about Sexton as well. I always here people complaining about his defense but his primary issue is being overly aggressive rather than not trying. That kind of thing is very fixable and once he slows the hell down I think he has the potential to be an elite perimeter defender like Lowry and CP were because he has the quickness to stay in front of his guy and the strong lower body to not get bullied. Sexton has the most important that you need to be a good defender and that is effort and a lot of the time that can't be taught. We just saw it with Mitchell for years. The guy simply didn't want to put in the effort on that end of the court.
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Coaches and player development guys had a long hard look at him, and decided he was expendable. And not only expendable, but pretty much our top trade bait who we continuously reported receiving calls about. They saw something they didn't like... or heard when discussing with the guy on a daily basis. Lets not pretend they didnt see the hustle or appreciate it.

Now I think he will be a good player and possibly even a starter one day.. But not in a team with a system like we have, nor to a team that has a non-spacing center. Hardy has had to adapt his system to Kessler alone since he would want to play 5 out more. Adding a second non-spacer was just a deal breaker.

Also.. no one has mentioned this... but guess who didnt come calling for him during trade deadline or at least wasnt reported to do so? His former employers Wolves and Nuggets. And Nuggets were actually on the market for a guy like him... and went with Thomas Bryant.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
OMG!! The only players on this team that post up in this offense is the guards namely Sexton and JC ROTFL you should stick to talking about things you know this is the era of position-less basketball. When was the last time a big on this team posted up, Millsap and Al? Shut it!!
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Also btw lol at the "position-less basketball". How is that working for the Raptors.. the foremost pioneers of the concept?

Positional fluidity is the new buzzword... until it isnt in 2026 or something. Lauri fits to that concept great btw... VANDO DOESNT. He plays 1 position well offensively (center)... albeit he can defend 1-4 (not bigger PFs though).
 
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