Also how you take the comment "top dollar".
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Also how you take the comment "top dollar".
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Understand what your saying, but that AK deal was toxic compared to anything Hayward could get. Probably 2-5 million less and three less years. Son not really the same thing
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gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Not exactly comparing the 2. But it is still a bad idea to give Max contracts to people who don't deserve them. Players worthy of Max contracts should be worth those max contracts when signed, not sign them to a max hoping they will eventually deserve them. That is the only way I meant to compare the 2. Hayward's contract would undoubtedly be less toxic than AK's, I have not nor will I argue otherwise. But there is still something to be learned from it. The Jazz were essentially in the same place then as they are now. It's a bad idea not to learn from a previous mistake.
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And the people pretending that signing Hayward to a max contract will have no negative impact are fooling themselves.
Cracked me up. Would rep but I'm on tapatalk.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
I here ya, and I don't want the jazz to give him a max either, but I do recall the jazz over paying for Boozer and Memo, they ended up justifying their contracts and made the jazz a pretty good team along with the Deron draft.
This is the nature of the nba. As a small market sometimes you have to overspend and pay a guy what you hope he will become. A gm or owner of a small market will get swallowed alive if they don't have this mind set. I don't think anyone is going to pay him a max deal, but if we want to keep him, and you think he will improve you have to over pay as a small market.
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Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Lol. I'm almost exclusively on tapetalk and haven't repped anyone in forever. Damned tapetalk
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gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily disagree. But I think Boozer was a lot further along than Hayward is now and did not get a max, until he left Utah. Okur was a much bigger risk. But again it was not a max. Maybe the Jazz see something I don't. But I don't see Hayward as a max player.
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I'd be all for bringing him back, I like him as a player.
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But being a max player is more that just getting paid. It's a sign to the rest of your team that you are the best player, that you can be counted on to carry the team when needed, and that you can go head to head with anyone in the league and hold your own. I would not say any of those things about Hayward.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
My whole argument is that I don't see him as a max, and don't think we will have to pay max $ to sign him, but to sign him we will overpay.
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gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Okay, we pretty much agree then (as usual). I'm not sure they will have to overpay him. But that depends on what you think he's worth.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Kirilenko's deal was 6 years at $14.4mm per (as an own team extension). Hayward's could be 4 years at $15.9mm per (as an other team FA signing). Hayward could actually get 5 years at $17.1mm per if the Jazz were to re-sign him at the own team max (with max raises).
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
1. I have no idea if someone will give him the max. Avery Bradley got 8 per, Jody Meeks got 6.3 per. Kyle Lowry, the best player on an on-the-rise team that very nearly got to the second round this past season, only got 12 per over 4. None of this makes sense to me.
2. The 6th year of AK's deal was worth $17.8mm. The 5th year on an own team deal could be as high as $19.3mm. The 4th year on an other team deal could be as high as $16.9mm.
3. Maybe these rumors were total ********, and the market for Gordo is priced at or below Lowry's 12 per. I hope so. 12 is still a fairly large overpay for Gordo, but I could stomach it.