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Game Thread: Utah @ BYU, Sat. 9/21 8:15pm MT, ESPN2

colton said:
It's not a catch 22, but that's probably not quite what you meant.* You probably mean that it's a lose-lose situation, or something like that...but surely you have a preference between the two scenarios, do you not? I heard lots of Utah fans say how "over" BYU they were, that the only thing they cared about was Pac 12 standings, and by implication national standings. So, is that REALLY the case (in which case, pick A), or does the BYU game still have a substantial significance (in which case, pick B)?

Or if you really don't want to pick, maybe, just maybe you (collectively, not you individually) should get off the case of BYU fan for being somewhat pleased as to how the season is progressing, despite the loss to Utah.



* A catch 22 is a pardoxical situation, which is not the case here.
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catch 22 wiki
....One connotation of the term is that the creators of the "Catch-22" have created arbitrary rules in order to justify and conceal their own abuse of power.

I think the phrase works fine here. Especially when referring to one of your posts.
 
heyhey said:
catch 22 wiki
....One connotation of the term is that the creators of the "Catch-22" have created arbitrary rules in order to justify and conceal their own abuse of power.

I think the phrase works fine here. Especially when referring to one of your posts.
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So remind me again--would you rather have a better record/ranking and a loss to BYU, or a worse record/ranking but a win over BYU?
 
colton said:
So remind me again--would you rather have a better record/ranking and a loss to BYU, or a worse record/ranking but a win over BYU?
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Would I trade the win over BYU and make the OSU, UCLA, UA, and USC losses turn to wins? In a second.
 
YB85 said:
Would I trade the win over BYU and make the OSU, UCLA, UA, and USC losses turn to wins? In a second.
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Good on ya for actually answering honestly
 
UGLI baby said:
Well then you sir are saying that byu is better than Utah!

Colton wins! Colton wins!

deerrrrrrrpppppppp
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I actually think that colton is not saying that this means byu is better than utah..... just that a utah fan would be happier with a byu loss but more wins overall..... which is why currently most byu fans (myself included) are feeling ok about our teams season right now, while most ute fans are down on thier season right now.

Before all the ute fans attack me with all the usual "byu hasn't beaten anyone really good..... they have no chance at a conference championship...... they will struggle to recruit against utah being in the pac 12... etc etc" I believe utah is in the better situation and has a brighter future and would trade places with utahs situation (being in the pac12 vs independent)..... but right now, in this time of this season, I think most byu fans are enjoying thier teams football season more than most ute fans despite the rivalry game loss
 
@ugli
I tried to stay out of it but failed :-(

#nowillpower
 
YB85 said:
Would I trade the win over BYU and make the OSU, UCLA, UA, and USC losses turn to wins? In a second.
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Thanks for being the first Ute fan to reply to my question. Contrary to UGLI's belief, I'm not trying to do some fancy logical maneuvering to make your response somehow prove BYU is better.

Out of curiosity... where do you draw the line? That is...

trade BYU win vs. OSU, UCLA, UA, and USC losses -- yes

trade BYU win vs. three of those losses, but not all four?

trade BYU win vs. two of those losses?

trade BYU win vs. one of those losses?


Edit: trying to answer the question in reverse, I realize it's difficult. Would I trade a win over Utah for one of our other wins? Absolutely, I'd do a one-for-one swap pretty much with no questions asked. Would I trade it for TWO other wins, though? I'm not so sure. Might have to depend on the specific teams involved. And I certainly would not trade it for three or more other wins.
 
fishonjazz said:
I actually think that colton is not saying that this means byu is better than utah..... just that a utah fan would be happier with a byu loss but more wins overall..... which is why currently most byu fans (myself included) are feeling ok about our teams season right now, while most ute fans are down on thier season right now.
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Precisely. In fact, I've specifically at least a couple of times that I DON'T think BYU is better right now,* most recently with this post.
https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...-15pm-MT-ESPN2&p=684476&viewfull=1#post684476


* although that'll change if BYU beats Wisconsin and Utah loses to Arizona State. If that happens I think the evidence will be convincing enough that BYU is a top 25 team and Utah is not.
 
colton said:
Thanks for being the first Ute fan to reply to my question. Contrary to UGLI's belief, I'm not trying to do some fancy logical maneuvering to make your response somehow prove BYU is better.

Out of curiosity... where do you draw the line? That is...

trade BYU win vs. OSU, UCLA, UA, and USC losses -- yes

trade BYU win vs. three of those losses, but not all four?

trade BYU win vs. two of those losses?

trade BYU win vs. one of those losses?


Edit: trying to answer the question in reverse, I realize it's difficult. Would I trade a win over Utah for one of our other wins? Absolutely, I'd do a one-for-one swap pretty much with no questions asked. Would I trade it for TWO other wins, though? I'm not so sure. Might have to depend on the specific teams involved. And I certainly would not trade it for three or more other wins.
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OK, I'll jump in here finally and answer the initial question outright. My answer to the original question is this: Yes, I would rather lose to BYU and win more games in the PAC-12 so that we could go to a better bowl. Part of the problem I have with your initial question is because it includes reference to rankings, which isn't that big of a deal to me - but if that one loss means we win multiple more PAC-12 games, then absolutely, I'd trade it.

Now, how many of those? Good question.

Because my end game is a bowl berth, I don't see trading a BYU loss for a single win as being beneficial to my end game. It's a wash, doesn't change the record against FBS teams, doesn't get us any closer to a bowl game.

Would I take a BYU loss for a couple of PAC-12 wins? Absolutely. I'd prefer one of those wins to be a road game, because I think we need to start winning some PAC-12 road games, but I'd take what I can get. Because that scenario gets us a better standing in the PAC-12, and gets us closer to a bowl berth.

I guess what I'm saying is I like the rivalry with BYU, but it's not as important to me as PAC-12 performance and a bowl berth. BYU fans are going to be a pain in the butt win or lose because it seems their whole identity is wrapped up in how they do against Utah, so that's not a factor in helping choose which situation is better.

I just want to go to the Rose Bowl. <sigh>
 
I can't wait for the inevitable bowl matchup in one of the next couple seasons. They may not play during the season but it's likely that they'll face off in a bowl game. That's a guaranteed sell-out and the bowls are all about the money. Imagine a bunch of UGLI's and YB's who don't have to smuggle their beer/booze into the game sitting next to Coltons and Spazzes. I get giddy just thinking about it.
 
leftyjace said:
BYU fans are going to be a pain in the butt win or lose because it seems their whole identity is wrapped up in how they do against Utah
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This might be true for me, but most fans I know don't seem to care all that much. This is most likely due to the fact that BYU has won all of their games since, most by a significant margin.

Don't get me wrong though, most fans were pretty pissed during the week after. But, they were pissed at BYU, and were actually very complimenting of Utah and especially Wilson.

I'm drunk.
 
Safetydan said:
This might be true for me, but most fans I know don't seem to care all that much. This is most likely due to the fact that BYU has won all of their games since, most by a significant margin.

Don't get me wrong though, most fans were pretty pissed during the week after. But, they were pissed at BYU, and were actually very complimenting of Utah and especially Wilson.

I'm drunk.
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This is pretty accurate imo
I was WAY upset after the loss to the utes but its amazing how a 5 game win streak + time can heal the wounds left from that loss
 
YB85 said:
I can't wait for the inevitable bowl matchup in one of the next couple seasons. They may not play during the season but it's likely that they'll face off in a bowl game. That's a guaranteed sell-out and the bowls are all about the money. Imagine a bunch of UGLI's and YB's who don't have to smuggle their beer/booze into the game sitting next to Coltons and Spazzes. I get giddy just thinking about it.
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I think it would be hilarious if they met both years for bowl games.

#pray4utes2bebowleligible
 
JazzSpazz said:
I think it would be hilarious if they met both years for bowl games.

#pray4utes2bebowleligible
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Good point. Now that the Utes have dropped a guaranteed win from their schedule for the next couple years, they may have to scramble.
 
YB85 said:
Good point. Now that the Utes have dropped a guaranteed win from their schedule for the next couple years, they may have to scramble.
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Unlike this year and last year?
 
YB85 said:
Good point. Now that the Utes have dropped a guaranteed win from their schedule for the next couple years, they may have to scramble.
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lol... can't argue with that. Too bad you scheduled Michigan. No Kraft Hunger for you.
 
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