Gun Control

[One Brow]

Correct, it's a 4th Amendment right... But the 4th has already fallen victim to the war on drugs, aka modern day jim crow.

Yup.

 

[One Brow]

Aside from my misuse of "my". If I was a new York resident I am not on a list and could not buy a weapon from a private owner. If I lived in Colorado I would not be able to have the clips I already own...

What stops you from getting on the list in New York?

Don't bother with a clip size not being a 2nd amendment issue arguement. That is a non starter between us. You claim it is not and I claim it is.

My claim is that I can't see any reason your claim is valid. If you can find a way to support your claim, I'll reconsider.

 

[Stoked]

What stops you from getting on the list in New York?



My claim is that I can't see any reason your claim is valid. If you can find a way to support your claim, I'll reconsider.

Sorry, "not" should not be there in reference to New York.

As for you reconsidering it. To be honest I am not really conserned if you do or not. I have those rights, see them as rights and will not give them up.

 

[Hantlers]

People are evil. As long as people are evil (and they always will be), then no matter what laws we have, crime will still happen. It would be nice if all these politicians would stop politicizing the Newtown shooting though. They don't care about those families, they just want to pass their laws that won't do anything but make people feel better.

 

[Scat]

Don't get this argument. You got something to hide?

Yes, that I have a gun.

If I use it responsibly, why does anyone need to know that I have one?

Regarding all the recent suggestions, they are a knee jerk reaction to Sandy Hook. Guess what? None the recent suggestion would have prevented Sandy Hook so what's the point?

 

[One Brow]

When this thread started I expected some new gun regulations to pass. Luckily that hasn't happened.

I just heard an interview on NPR with Senator Coburn of Oklahoma. He stated flatly that most sales at gun shows are private sales, not subject to background checks under current law. He is proposing a law where potential buyers must prove they are not on the nix list to potential sellers.

 

[Bronco70]

I just heard an interview on NPR with Senator Coburn of Oklahoma. He stated flatly that most sales at gun shows are private sales, not subject to background checks under current law. He is proposing a law where potential buyers must prove they are not on the nix list to potential sellers.

I have no idea how guns shows are in OK, but here in Utahr, that just isn't the case.

Aside from gun shows; There are many private sellers (internet, etc.) that require a CCW (which requires a thorough background check by the Utah BCI) to make a transaction. This is a smart move, IMO.

 

[babe]

People are evil. As long as people are evil (and they always will be), then no matter what laws we have, crime will still happen. It would be nice if all these politicians would stop politicizing the Newtown shooting though. They don't care about those families, they just want to pass their laws that won't do anything but make people feel better.

won't even do that.

it is an irrational appeasement of an ignorant mob, which said ignorant mob will go on demanding more and more appeasement based on their own "superior values". They are themselves lawless and will recognize no boundaries to their insatiable desire to impose their "feel good impulses" randomly on anyone who seems somehow out of step with their views of how everyone should be. This is the antithesis of individual rights, and the epitome of mob rule.

 

[babe]

In the absence of an incipient world government with stated principles and intent to disarm the general population while retaining police arms and military arms negotiated by its unelected fascist directorate, I might see how a free society could regulate personal weapons to achieve some level of general "comfort" without excessive accidental and criminal misuse of weapons. But unwinding History back to the roots of human existence is a successive demonstration that it's not just guns, but tomahawks, crossbows, spears, clubs, and even rocks. . . . every sort of tool that ever gave one man a "leg up" in a fight. . . . . People will resort to force when a government loses authority or respect, or when any force is arrayed against them, individually or collectively. And it is intuitively obvious that every person has an equal right to life, and hence an equal right to weapons. . . . . unless you really just believe some people should be "superior" to others . . . . .

The one thing the UN stated objective does is remove, absolutely, the right of human beings to contest state force.

This observation is hard to understand next to the statement I made above, except in the fact that tyrants often find mobs useful tools/fools. So you have to go to the roots of the controversy, and look for any signs that someone is acting to incite a public outcry or issue in a way that is producing some kind of "mob" mentality.

In this context, I look at some of the posters in this forum who started out with polarizing comments bordering on hate or calling for unlawful harm/retribution, as being "useful idiots" more than reasoned, responsible people. Some right-wingnuts deal with things just as ignorantly and just as stupidly.. .. . . . but the fact that I challenge anyone to refute is the fact of today's very influential and very wealthy folks ( and specifically those who are all on board with the UN stated objective) being big pushers for new gun legislation at this time.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

https://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Harvard paper:
"Where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest."

 

[VINYLONE]

https://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/homeowner-shoots-suspect-during-attempted-breakin/29990518

SEDGWICK COUNTY, Kan. -
A Sedgwick County man shoots a person he says was breaking into his home Sunday morning.

The Sheriff's Department says Dudley reported shooting and chasing a man who was trying to break into his house. Investigators are still trying to piece together what all happened.

Sedgwick County dispatchers tell Eyewitness News the homeowner grabbed his gun to defend his family when he thought he heard someone breaking into the house. He told us, it's not something you're ever prepared for.

Even hours later, he was still worried about his family, not wanting Eyewitness News to show any close-up shots of his home, inside or out, or any other members of his family. And he only wants us to call him Mr. Dudley.

"We were awakened early this morning by the sound of our home alarm going off," said Dudley. "And that was followed by the sound of breaking glass. I went to investigate the noise and found an intruder breaking and entering my home."

That's when Dudley says he fired at the suspect, hitting him. The believed burglar, Dudley says, ran away.

"I was heading to church when I ran across several officers on the road," said his neighbor, Dave Duncan.

"We noticed all the police cars and the ambulance, and so forth," added another neighbor, Robert Christians.

The first they knew about what had happened was when the law arrived.

"It's scary. who knows," said Duncan.

"It is when you see the police here," agreed Christians about the fear.

Investigators say they found the alleged burglar a short distance away, walking, with a gunshot wound.

"I would probably have treated them the same way," said Christians.

Duncan says he's known the Dudley family for years.

"We have worked together a lot on different things. When winter time flies and the snow flies, we're all together on clearing the snow, whatever. Good neighbors to have," Duncan said.

Everyone in the neighborhood says they can't believe this happened in their community.

When asked if this was something he'd prepared for, Mr. Dudley answered, "No, ma'am. Absolutely not. Can't say that I was prepared for it. I don't know how you prepare for that."

But Christians says he has been worried more about safety lately.

"It seems there's much more lawlessness around, more burglaries, more robberies, worse than it was just a few years ago," he explained. "We make sure our doors are locked at night."

Increased security is something Dudley is more aware of now, too.

Two adults and three children were at the house at the time of the break-in and shooting. None were hurt.

"We're thankful that everyone is safe," Dudley said.

The suspect was taken to an area hospital to be treated for his gunshot wound. Once released, he was arrested on aggravated burglary charges.

 

[VINYLONE]

https://www.al.com/news/montgomery/index.ssf/2014/12/faulkner_university_football_p.html

MONTGOMERY, Alabama -- Montgomery police have charged three Faulkner University students in the Wednesday night shooting death of football player Ryan Brooks.

Police say Brooks, 19, of Chelsea was shot by a homeowner in the 5900 block of Woodmere Boulevard when he and three other students attempted to break into a residence to commit a robbery.

The homeowner shot Brooks in self-defense, according to police.

Montgomery police say those Faulkner University students involved in the home invasion robbery have been charged with murder.

They are: Marshall Wall, 19, Ronnie Williams 19, both of Loxley, and Tabias Russell, 19, of Alexander City. They are being held in the Montgomery County Detention Facility on $75,000 bond.

Montgomery police found Brooks dead of a gunshot wound at around 7:38 p.m.

Brooks, Williams and Russell are members Faulkner's junior varsity football team. Wall is a member of the school's soccer team.

"In its 72-year history, Faulkner University has never had a shooting involving a student," university President Billy D. Hilyer said, during an afternoon press conference. "The safety and well-being of our students is paramount at this university."

Faulkner Chief of Police Tony Dean said Brooks and the three students charged all lived on campus.

"There is no indication this (homicide) is an overflow of something that occurred on campus," he said.

University officials didn't speak about the circumstances during the shooting death at the press conference, but did confirm that three students had been charged.

Dean said he was notified by Montgomery police just moments after the shooting occurred that they believed it involved a Faulkner student.

The Faulkner campus wasn't placed on lockdown Wednesday evening, he said, but extra officers were called in in case the investigation lead back to campus.

Rumors spread on social media that Brooks' death stemmed from a fraternity hazing.

Faulkner's Vice President of Student Services Jean-Noel Thompson said there is no evidence to support those rumors.

He said he has spoken with one of Brooks' parents.

Faulkner is a christian university with 2,400 students attending its Montgomery campus. About 700 of those students live on campus.