Hardy Says Keyonte Has a Chance to be a Star

[SoberasHotRod]

Except he did not really show it in the NBA. He showed it in the Summer League, and he showed it in a few meaningless games at the end of the season when the Jazz tanked and many of their opponents either also tanked or resting their players in the playoffs. When the games mattered I remember him too often passively standing and dribbling at the 3-point line, waiting for any action to materialize inside.

Keyonte still needs to prove that he can consistently get to wherever he wants to on the court against quality teams and good defenders. He, probably, will, but it is not a given.

He took on different roles at different times during the season. I'm guessing that was mostly on coaching. I felt like he consistently showed the first step burst, the wiggle, change of speed, ability to keep his dribble alive in traffic etc, that is more specifically what I'm talking about when I say he can get wherever he wants to on the court. Obviously there were time against some of the elite on ball defenders that he struggled, but so does everyone.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Eh I guess I could have said that I think poor shooting is a weakness of his instead. (To refer to your point about 3pt era vs non I would add that his 3 point shooting is subpar as well)

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I'm almost positive you know the difference, but just to make sure, do you understand why comparing fg% is not a good indication of efficiency or shooting?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I can explain if needed (I'm pretty sure I don't need to though).

 

[KqWIN]

Here are the craftednba comparisons for players 2013 and beyond:

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm almost positive you know the difference, but just to make sure, do you understand why comparing fg% is not a good indication of efficiency or shooting?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I can explain if needed (I'm pretty sure I don't need to though).

I do understand. They are very heavily related though. Like if someone is a poor field goal shooter and a poor three point shooter then their efficiency typically won't be good either.

Usually to be an efficient scorer your shooting has to be at least decent. Rarely will an efficient scorer have horrendous field goal percentage (under 40% in this case)

See what I'm saying? His horrendous shooting is an issue. As is his efficiency. If his shooting improves a lot and is no longer an issue then it's likely that his efficiency will also improve a lot and will not be an issue either.

Efficiency and shooting (field goal% along with 3 point%) can often be interchangeable terms (though not always)

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[jazznik]

Here are the craftednba comparisons for players 2013 and beyond:

Yeah, the limitations of the automated comparisons are pretty evident here: a lot of the comps for Keyonte are really strong dudes who use their strength on both ends. Keyonte is pretty light and has to build his game around it.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I do understand. They are very heavily related though. Like if someone is a poor field goal shooter and a poor three point shooter then their efficiency typically won't be good either.

Usually to be an efficient scorer your shooting has to be at least decent. Rarely will an efficient scorer have horrendous field goal percentage (under 40% in this case)

See what I'm saying? His horrendous shooting is an issue. As is his efficiency. If his shooting improves a lot and is no longer an issue then it's likely that his efficiency will also improve a lot and will not be an issue either.

Efficiency and shooting (field goal% along with 3 point%) can often be interchangeable terms (though not always)

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If someone shot 100% of their field goals from 3, then a 40%fg% would be an elite shooter. You can slide the scale however you would like, but this is kind of the whole point and why we have numbers like efg% and ts% that should always be used when comparing efficiency. I suppose if you have the fg%, 3pt fg%, and %fga from 3, then you could compare, but it's just so much more simple to use efg% or ts%, that I'm not sure why anyone would do anything different.

Again, not trying to be a dick, but your responses make me unsure if you get it. There really isn't a good reason to use fg% that I can think of.

 

[fishonjazz]

If someone shot 100% of their field goals from 3, then a 40%fg% would be an elite shooter. You can slide the scale however you would like, but this is kind of the whole point and why we have numbers like efg% and ts% that should always be used when comparing efficiency. I suppose if you have the fg%, 3pt fg%, and %fga from 3, then you could compare, but it's just so much more simple to use efg% or ts%, that I'm not sure why anyone would do anything different.

Again, not trying to be a dick, but your responses make me unsure if you get it. There really isn't a good reason to use fg% that I can think of.

Exactly.
I guess find me a list of players in the upper end of the league in efficiency who also shoot less than 40% from the field.
When you shoot that poorly from the field then your 3 point volume and percentage and free throw rate and percentage etc have to be so insanely high to get you to be an efficient scorer that it's basically impossible.

Go ahead and use ts% and efg% and any other metric you want to create a list of players that are on the upper end of your metric (whatever metric you choose) that also are below 40% from the field.

You are focusing on "from the field" too much which is causing you to miss the point I'm making in regards to keyonte George.

Keyonte needs to be a better shooter and more efficient scorer. Is that statement ok?

His field goal percentage, though not the only factor and not the end all be all to everything, contributes to his overall scoring efficiency in a negative way.

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[HermanG]

Exactly.
I guess find me a list of players in the upper end of the league in efficiency who also shoot less than 40% from the field.
When you shoot that poorly from the field then your 3 point volume and percentage and free throw rate and percentage etc have to be so insanely high to get you to be an efficient scorer that it's basically impossible.

Go ahead and use ts% and efg% and any other metric you want to create a list of players that are on the upper end of your metric (whatever metric you choose) that also are below 40% from the field.

You are focusing on "from the field" too much which is causing you to miss the point I'm making in regards to keyonte George.

Keyonte needs to be a better shooter and more efficient scorer. Is that statement ok?

His field goal percentage, though not the only factor and not the end all be all to everything, contributes to his overall scoring efficiency in a negative way.

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Dude their point is field goal % is a bad measuring stick for those who shoot a lot of 3s. Here is an example:

The greatest shooter of all time, Stephen Curry, has only had a FG over 50% once in his career.

Last year his fg% was 45.0. His efg% on the other hand was 57.3.

Do not use fg% to measure efficiency.

 

[fishonjazz]

Dude their point is field goal % is a bad measuring stick for those who shoot a lot of 3s. Here is an example:

The greatest shooter of all time, Stephen Curry, has only had a FG over 50% once in his career.

Last year his fg% was 45.0. His efg% on the other hand was 57.3.

Do not use fg% to measure efficiency.

You just provided some stats for Curry but none of them have him shooting under 40% from the field. Find me a player with a great efg% who also shoots under 40% from the field.

I'm saying that keyonte shooting under 40% from the field is a problem.

We will just have to agree to disagree I guess.

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[MTS]

You just provided some stats for Curry but none of them have him shooting under 40% from the field. Find me a player with a great efg% who also shoots under 40% from the field.

I'm saying that keyonte shooting under 40% from the field is a problem.

We will just have to agree to disagree I guess.

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Fish just use eFG%, lol.

 

[fishonjazz]

Fish just use eFG%, lol.

Fine.
Keyontes efg of 48% is a weakness.
An eFG% of 51% or higher is decent, while anything below 50% is subpar.

Hopefully that will allow folks to move on. Lol

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[fishonjazz]

I think inefficiency is another clear issue in addition to his defense.

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Or we could have just went with this.
Which was my first post on the topic.

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