C l u t c H 385
Banned
Hide your puppies...
He's baaa-aaaack
- Thread starter TheItinerantSon
- Start date
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Michael Vick is a productive scrambler when he's a duel threat with passing options, not on 4th and 1. Dude is gonna have 11 very angry men chase him down.
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
You know, the reason it works most of the time is because you get a quick snap while the defense isn't really ready (from an under-center position), and your entire team essentially falls forward to get that 1 yard. You don't run a QB draw out of the Shotgun after a 2-minute warning break and expect the defense to not know what is coming.
Also, to answer your question, not a ton of teams hand off to the FB because not a lot of teams scout for FB's anymore. Think of the early 2000's Tampa Bay Bucs. Alstott was money every time he touched the ball near the goalline. There's plenty of proof out there that a big dude carrying the ball to get 1 or 2 yards is a plenty reasonable option. It's at least better than running a QB draw out of the shotgun. Hell, even bootleg Vick on a fake handoff and let him race Green Bay's linebackers to get those yards. He was killing them all night.
Watching that video again, look how soft Green Bay's corners are playing on the right side. Vick could have picked up that yard by getting to the outside with no problem at all.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
That's what made the call great imo. It was a good call with bad execution. Who would have thought Vick was gonna take it up the 5 after a shotgun snap? Plus, it was for only 1 yard. It would be like the QB handing the ball off, but instead it was snapped directly to Vick. The FB, Weaver, was out and injured so Vick could have given the ball to a buck 98 pound RB, J. Maclin, or the other option was to dish it off to McCoy. No thanks!
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
It seemed like a panicked call that they didn't put much thought into, in my opinion. Green Bay has one of the best defenses in the league when it comes to winning the trench battles. They made a call that fed right into the defense's strength, whereas they got back into that game at all by using superior speed. They went away from what was working, didn't use any creativity, and lost. If they ran a fake handoff and bootlegged Vick, I bet you money the front 7 would have gone for that fake and Vick picks up 4 or 5 yards on the right sideline, comfortably.
What else is a D-Line going to do on 4th and 1 besides push forward and close lanes? Vick isn't the guy to push through that, so don't make that call, especially from a shotgun formation.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Or you run a 4 wr, Celek package to spread the defense out and give Vick the most room to work his magic. What works in college doesn't necessarily work in the NFL. What works in the NFL doesn't work for every team in the NFL. If you know anything at all about these two teams, the Pack's d-line and LB's are very good, the Eagles O-line is very shaky, their center was out, their fullback was out, and they are God awful year in and year out (because of dumb and predictable play-calling like that) in short yardage situations.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
You make for a good argument, U17, but I still don't think it was a "bad" call. Although I think it's easy to look back in retrospect and say what they could have or should have done, it's supporting what I'm saying as well. For example, you said they could have bootlegged it to the right side of the field and they have the first down, but what happens if someone misses an assignment and they don't pick up a block? I'm saying, if they would have blocked the LB well with the TE and you have the first down.
Watch the play again, and think what would happen if the LB playing DE is blocked does Vick get the first down or not? I bet my bottom buck that TE get reamed after the game or after film.
Watch the play again, and think what would happen if the LB playing DE is blocked does Vick get the first down or not? I bet my bottom buck that TE get reamed after the game or after film.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
So what should they have run?
TheItinerantSon
Well-Known Member
4 Wide Play action...with the green light to take off...
//r00t 4 Jazz
Well-Known Member
Not many use FB's except as mobile OL that occasionally catch passes, but just an FYI Miami does and does so A LOT, Polite was a perfect 16-for-16 on 3rd and 4th & 1yrd .
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
Yes, but like has been stated, Green Bay's front 7 is easily in the top 3 in the NFL.
I know my argument sounds a lot like I'm using hindsight to form it, but if you give me a mediocre O-Line, Vick, and a 2-minute warning on a 4th & 1 versus GB's front 7, there's no way I'm running right into the teeth of the defense if the game is on the line. I know I'm not an NFL coach, but the odds were severely stacked against them in that situation, so the most logical choice is to use misdirection. The great running teams are the teams that you'd expect to be able to line up 1 vs 1, man up on their blocks and push people out of the way to get yardage, and Philly is simply not that team. It's like they didn't really understand what personnel they had to work with when they made that call.
And about my bootleg idea, you could see on the film the corners were already backing up when the ball was snapped, giving an even bigger cushion. Not that they could have predicted that, but the Eagles were just as likely to play-action and send it over the corner's head, down the field. Why not eliminate the two most likely situations that the defense will expect, run a fake and take your fastest guy and dash him toward the sidelines where you have better blocking matchups and more space to work with?
All things considered, it still seems like a dumb idea to me to run that play.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I hope Vick becomes the starter. Then Philly fans will find out what Atlanta fans already know--the guy's a horrific passer. Great arm, terrible accuracy, horrific decision maker. Nothing more infuriating than a QB who is already looking to run the second his first read isn't there. Teams with good defenses will always beat Vick. Stack the box, designate a spy, and let him try to beat you with man coverage.
The great irony in this is the Eagles will have dispatched with a guy who could win regular season games and not get them to the mountaintop in McNabb, and then replaced him with the exact same QB. With Philly's D, and Vick's running ability, they'll win in regular season. But they'll never get past the second round of the playoffs with Vick. He's too easy to solve.
The great irony in this is the Eagles will have dispatched with a guy who could win regular season games and not get them to the mountaintop in McNabb, and then replaced him with the exact same QB. With Philly's D, and Vick's running ability, they'll win in regular season. But they'll never get past the second round of the playoffs with Vick. He's too easy to solve.
Fact. I have a man crush on Mike Vick. I tried to visit him in prison while in Kansas. He shot me down but I got over it.
TheItinerantSon
Well-Known Member
season stats
6 quarters
37/58 (64%) 459 yards (7.9 Yards per attempt) 3 TD's 0 INTs
QB RTG 105.5
18 rushes 140 yards 7.8 yards per carry
6 quarters
37/58 (64%) 459 yards (7.9 Yards per attempt) 3 TD's 0 INTs
QB RTG 105.5
18 rushes 140 yards 7.8 yards per carry
Intentional?
And lo, he did barely slay the mighty Detroit defense.
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
38 points is barely? Vick has nothing to do with his team's defense allowing 35 points.
Regardless, everyone's complaint with Vick always seems to be "he runs too early" or "can't throw the ball accurately" or "he has no pocket presence". Well, in the time he's played this season, he's displayed none of the previously mentioned complaints. If Philly starts Kolb again, they're dumb. Vick has been absolutely spectacular.
Boondocksaint27
Active Member
IMO Detroit's D is no pushover anymore. Especially with their acquisition of Kyle Vanden Bosch in the Offseason.