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How can we exploit a dumb franchise?

K

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
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One of Ainge's greatest hits is ripping off the Brooklyn Nets and building the foundation for who are not the defending champion Boston Celtics.

There's a lot of "dumb gm/president/governor" stuff going on in the league.

Mavs - Nico and whatever he's doing
Pelicans - Dumars hired to put them into hibernation. Remember, he thought Drummond, Monroe, and Josh Smith would work.
Kings - Kangz forever. Just hired failing upwards stars Calvin Booth and Scott Perry
Hawks - Just fired Landry Fields after he set them up for sustainable, cap responsible success
Suns - Ishbia

I'm probably missing some, but what I'm saying is that there are a few franchises out there that are desperate to do something and/or had some hires that are famous for their failures. How can we target these franchises and come away with another Ainge heist?
 
Some believe that Dumars was brought in with a mandate to trade Zion. He denied it, but what else is he supposed to do in front of a mic? I don't think we're a Zion destination, but I they will have plenty of future assets going into the future. The Pelicans have all their future firsts, IND's protected 26, and swaps with MIL for 26 and 27. If they trade Zion, their warchest will be full. Pelicans ownership does not care about the teams, they care about the Saints. All they want to do is become Bulls West. They don't care about winning, they are about not sucking and not spending lots of money.

This makes them a perfect destination for Sexton and Collins. Who would they send back? Dejounte Murray. Murray is likely going to miss all of next year and has lots of long term money on his deal. This would give the Pelicans win now players who replace Zion and Murray while also clearing up their future cap sheet. This would leave the Pelicans with a completely mid, but cheap team. Exactly where they want to be. Taking on Murray's contract would suck for the Jazz, but him being out next year works towards our interests. I think we could get premium value for both the players (Sexton, Collins) and the salary dump.
 
Suns are going to hold onto Booker and try to retool around him. They’ll get a return for KD, but it won’t be comparable to what they gave up for him, due to his age, imo. They’ll be looking for quality vets. I could see them being talked into John Collins, maybe with Clarkson thrown in. The issue is that I’m not sure what they could give us. We already took their 2031 pick in a bizarre trade swap this year.

There have been some musings that the Suns would trade KD to Houston and take back young talent (incl. Sheppard). Utah could work itself in as a 3rd team and take back a young player and some draft capital routed through the Suns.
 
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Denver may not opt to ‘run it back’ if they get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. They also have a new GM promoted internally (after they fired Calvin Booth) who might like to make a splashy move.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Suns are going to hold onto Booker and try to retool around him. They’ll get a return for KD, but it won’t be comparable to what they gave up for him, due to his age, imo. They’ll be looking for quality vets. I could see them being talked into John Collins, maybe with Clarkson thrown in. The issue is that I’m not sure what they could give us. We already took their 2031 pick in a bizarre trade swap this year.

There have been some musings that the Suns would trade KD to Houston and take back young talent (incl. Sheppard). Utah could work itself in as a 3rd team and take back a young player and some draft capital routed through the Suns.
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The PHX trade idea/concept I've seen thrown around a lot is a 3 teamer with HOU. HOU has tons of young talent, but PHX is likely to prefer more veteran talent. Maybe that means Lauri, maybe that means Collins+Sexton. I haven't thought too much about it, but I do want to engage in trade with PHX. Will likely need to be a multi team trade though.

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Denver may not opt to ‘run it back’ if they get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. They also have a new GM promoted internally (after they fired Calvin Booth) who might like to make a splashy move.
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I forgot about DEN. They are definitely going to be in desperation mode.
 
If I were Orlando, I might offer the #16 pick and #25 for Keyonte and another rotational piece. I might want two 2nds coming back. The Magic run their offense through Paolo and Franz, so they can play Keyonte off the ball.

Jazz probably decline. Sexton could be in play though.
 
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Ferguson_Mellochill said:
If I were Orlando, I might offer the #16 pick and #25 for Keyonte and another rotational piece. I might want two 2nds coming back. The Magic run their offense through Paolo and Franz, so they can play Keyonte off the ball.

Jazz probably decline. Sexton could be in play though.
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I hadn't thought about Key to ORL, but that would be an ideal landing spot for him. Key was once the chosen one, but I do think he has lost his luster a bit internally. Things can change quickly. We saw them dump Ochai after he was once "untradeable" and we've also seen the vibes on Kessler change drastically back and forth. It wouldn't surprise me if a Key trade is on the table.

We know Hardy loved Black before the draft, maybe that's something we revisit? If ORL still believes in Black, they have the pick compensation for Key and IIRC Key and Black are best buds so that's a nice fit.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Suns are going to hold onto Booker and try to retool around him. They’ll get a return for KD, but it won’t be comparable to what they gave up for him, due to his age, imo. They’ll be looking for quality vets. I could see them being talked into John Collins, maybe with Clarkson thrown in. The issue is that I’m not sure what they could give us. We already took their 2031 pick in a bizarre trade swap this year.

There have been some musings that the Suns would trade KD to Houston and take back young talent (incl. Sheppard). Utah could work itself in as a 3rd team and take back a young player and some draft capital routed through the Suns.
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I wouldn't mind being able to send out Collins and Clarkson and get back some of the draft stuff we sent to Phoenix, no matter how partial.
 
Golden State is treading water right now. They've shown interest in Lauri in the past. Their draft picks might have some real value in another year or two. They're going to want to move Kuminga.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Golden State is treading water right now. They've shown interest in Lauri in the past. Their draft picks might have some real value in another year or two. They're going to want to move Kuminga.
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Incoming salary would have to be Kuminga, Moody, and Hield here to duck the second apron. Any Kuminga trade would hardcap them to the second apron. I think they can actually make it work without Moody, but things get really tight for GSW if they keep him.

I like going for the Warriors picks in distant years. If we want a trade like this to happen, we should be rooting for HOU to come out on top.
 
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If anyone was wondering, if we do a deal with GSW, Kuminga's contract could start anywhere from about $16-$38 million.
 
Actually it's just not possible for a Warriors deal unless they trade Jimmy or we wait until Dec 15. No S&T above 1st apron.
 
KqWIN said:
Actually it's just not possible for a Warriors deal unless they trade Jimmy or we wait until Dec 15. No S&T above 1st apron.
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I thought it was that you couldn’t receive a sign and trade player? They can’t participate in either side of sign and trade.

Either way I feel like I wouldn’t want to be in the Kuminga business.
 
Milwaukee is in real danger of exiting in the 1st round. Not sure where they'd go from here, but they might be pretty desperate to try something new.

In Minnesota, both Naz Reid and Julius Randle have player options next season. That could lead to a shakeup.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I thought it was that you couldn’t receive a sign and trade player? They can’t participate in either side of sign and trade.

Either way I feel like I wouldn’t want to be in the Kuminga business.
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It’s not at the top of the list but I’m not necessarily out on it. Depends on Kuminga’s deal (can be descending and only three years), what else is in the deal, and what else is on the table.

I think Kuminga could maybe be decent tank commander (producing empty numbers; not hurting the tank and hopefully retaining or building value). And if the deal is underwater enough maybe it adds to the draft assets?

I don’t know.
 
KqWIN said:
Actually it's just not possible for a Warriors deal unless they trade Jimmy or we wait until Dec 15. No S&T above 1st apron.
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I'm kinda confused by this. They should be able to send out players in S&T. Or am I missing some point here?

If they are above the 2nd apron then they cannot take any salary back in such trade nor can they use the TPE generated in that trade (as long as they stay above 2nd apron). But they can still send out S&T guys for picks to clear their cap holds.

At least thats how I've understood it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I thought it was that you couldn’t receive a sign and trade player? They can’t participate in either side of sign and trade.

Either way I feel like I wouldn’t want to be in the Kuminga business.
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Yeah…I’m confused. I think you have it right. As someone who has freezing cold takes on Kuminga, I’ll say that I’m still in the Kuminga business if 1) he isn’t consider positive value in the trade and 2) if his contract is short term/team controlled. Giving lots of long term money Kuminga, yeah that ship has sailed. But giving him a lot of money in the short term to execute a trade with potentially our best trade partner? Yeah I’d still do that. Short term money doesn’t really matter (same goes for Lauri tbf), I think we’re in the right spot to take a chance on him as long as we have the ability to cut the cord quickly. His role is essentially salary filler anyways.
 
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