How white liberals view black voters

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NPC D4617, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    Not for "established" populations..... people who have been in our system and who have ID. But the illegals, and the criminals(notice there are two sets, logically, here), there would be a disproportionate impact..... which of course..... creates the black market for guns, which is every bit as efficient as the legal market.....

    So.... No.... anyone who wants a gun can find a way to get what is wanted. The more laws, the more black market.... that's about all the difference.
     
  2. babe

    babe Well-Known Member

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    I've been through the area about three times..... Isn't East St. Louis in Illinois? I think my family is heading west through there about now.... gonna take some pics of the Gateway arch.....

    I have thought of the area's center as mostly black, but with some nice suburbs..... very industrialized center.
     
  3. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    As with much of the Midwest, a lot of the heavy industry has left East St. Louis. Outside of the casino and near-by areas, it doesn't have much for visitors. St. Louis is much better in that regard.
     
  4. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide any information that would help us identify where these people who cannot get ID, don't know their way to the DMV, haven't got internet access or the education to use it, and/or would be unwilling to show their ID in order to vote are?
     
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  5. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that you don't think they exist, or that you can't use Google yourself to find out?
     
  6. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I searched that exact sentence and got nothing. I guess Google doesn't know either.

    It shows you a bunch of DMV sites.
     
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  7. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Getting a license/state ID really isn’t a hard thing to do.

    One may argue that having an I’d to vote isn’t necessary but I’ve never found the whole voter suppression/can’t get ID angle to be convincing or accurate.
     
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  8. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    I put in "people who have trouble getting voter id", and these were the first 5 links.

    https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet
    https://www.wired.com/story/voter-id-law-algorithm/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/
     
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  9. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    Now, I agree that Voter ID laws don't actually change election results much. That's a different issue than whether they disenfranchise people.
     
  10. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    This situation in North Dakota during the 2018 midterms seemed to make it difficult to get a "proper" ID:

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-ri...nfranchisement-north-dakotas-native-americans

    https://www.npr.org/2018/10/13/6571...nt-be-accepted-at-north-dakota-polling-places
     
  11. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    If they are not effective immediately I simply don’t think they do. Put them out 2 years. Plus states can further aid the process. Such as waiving fees for the elderly.

    But are they really necessary?
     
  12. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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  13. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    People who can not obtain id, don't know the way to(or what hours are for) the DMV:

    https://rewire.news/ablc/2014/10/16/well-actually-pretty-hard-people-get-photo-id-just-vote/

    haven't got internet access or the education to use it:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/22/some-americans-dont-use-the-internet-who-are-they/

    Unwilling to show ID:

    https://teachprivacy.com/10-reasons-privacy-matters/
     
  14. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

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    You see this unhinged tirade as evidence that people who want IDs can't get them? It's all hypothetical. No proof at all that the problem you are claiming actually exists. It seems more than reasonable to me that people should be required to present an ID to vote, and also that they should have to present an ID to buy a gun, get on a plane, etc.
     
  15. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    When understanding a different view, you must first have put yourself in their shoes. The article does a pretty **** job of engineering itself for people that don't want to hear people complain; it presents a well bitched about problem before it presents a route to the solution. It also tells me you didn't really read it, you just grabbed the first bit you could.

    Allow me to point out what you missed:

    In Texas, for example, the cost of traveling to the nearest Department of Public Safety office, Texas’ version of the DMV, can be burdensome: Of the 254 counties in Texas, 78 do not have a permanent DPS office. In some communities along the Mexican border, the nearest DPS office is between 100 and 125 miles away. And in rural communities in other states, the DMV offices are few and far between.
    • Can you imagine having to travel 50-62.5 miles to get to a DPS for a pircture ID? Without a vehicle of your own?
    Oftentimes, people don’t even have the money to pay for the underlying documentation needed to get a photo ID card. Getting a photo ID invariably requires proof of identification; usually, that means you need your birth certificate. But what if you don’t have your birth certificate? Then you have to contact whatever government office is in charge of that sort of thing to get a copy of it. And that can be a real pain in the *** for a lot of reasons.
    • I ordered a copy of my birth certificate back in '09. I had to submit the request in the form of application, and identification. If no state identification was had, my parent had to provide their identification. So I submitted my mother's birth certificate. Imagine the pickle I'd be in had my mother not had hers.
    • What happens if my birth certificate had a mistake on it? I'll tell you this, when I had to correct my social security card from Daniel to David, I also needed my mom's birth certificate.
    What if a birth certificate never existed?
    • No, that doesn't mean you're an illegal alien. A lot of rural folks were born on farms, or to midwives in homes.
    And did you know that in 2010, the birth certificates of all American citizens born in Puerto Rico expired? Because they did. So if you were born in Puerto Rico and you need a birth certificate, well, good luck with that. Sure, you can pay five bucks to get a new one—and let’s not forget that for some people, like low-income folks or homeless folks, even five dollars is five dollars too much—but guess what you need in order to get a new birth certificate?
    • Photo ID

    One that isn't copied from the article; were you ever handed state or federally accepted photo identification without applying, paying a fee, or having paid a fee?
    • I wasn't

    So help me out mang... which one of these is not a real concern? Which one of these is only hypothetical, and could never actually exist in the real world?
     
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  16. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

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    Doing this once every 5-10 years doesn't really seem all that difficult.
     
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  17. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    Pretty damn good post
     
  18. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

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    When I said "hypothetical" it was because I know that it's possible to imagine obstacles, but are real people who want to vote actually being stopped by these obstacles? I think not. Every person faces some sort of obstacle every day. That's a big part of life. Nobody seems to be concerned that filling out tax forms is not especially convenient, or that registering a car can be a hassle, or that it might be easier to go through life without ever filling out an insurance form. You think the one thing in life that should have no obstacles whatsoever is voting? To me it makes a lot more sense to ask people to endure the relatively minor inconvenience of obtaining an ID than creating a voting system where we could not possibly know who is voting or how many times they are voting.
     
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  19. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I can think of one person I know that doesn't have an ID.

    Can you?
     
  20. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've done it myself, while living on a monthly budget that included travel of less than $30.

    I had to travel for three hours by bus.

    While it was annoying and difficult, I had to do it.
     

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