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I knew this was going to happen!

Nate505 said:
There was some hyperbole there, but it was to prove a point that availability doesn't drive demand.

for example a movie studio could flood the market with Ishtar the Directors Cut DVDs yet the sales there would not move an inch since there is no demand for it.

With weed and porn there is a demand, but increased availability doesn't drive it. If it did people with no interest in it, like you I'm wagering, would start buying it.

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The difference is 1) there's no demand for Ishtar; 2) there are no restrictions on buying it if one so desires; 3) there has never been moral opposition to it. Switch the comparison around to something that is very popular, but viewing it just might get you arrested, or perhaps cause division in a marriage, and those under 18 have a very, very hard time accessing it. Now take away a lot of those restrictions, especially something like pornography that in certain forms has been softened down to market to females. Also easily accessible by children/teens on the internet.

Really talking about two different animals here as porn isn't illegal (except in the case of involvement/viewership with minors). Weed IS illegal in most states. Take away the fear of arrest, fines, imprisonment, loss of job, and yes, LEGAL accessibility WILL drive demand. I don't use weed personally, but if I did, I would be much more likely to buy it without fear of consequence than I would if it still carries significant penalties if I'm caught buying or selling.
 
I want to watch Ishtar the Director's cut.
 
Beantown said:
Well I'm pretty sure you would like it if you were watching it.........


But your point still makes no sense. That's like saying every human likes heroine. Yea if anyone starts taking heroine on a regular basis they will become dependent on it.


The same goes for porn. If I just sat around all day squeezing them out to porn then I would turn into other guys I know. Where they have to keep watching more hardcore stuff to get off and then eventually they can't get it up for their wife because they enjoy rubbin it out to porn more.
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Chemical and psycological dependencies are too different things.

You arguments sound more like a personal problem than anything else.
 
Core4 said:
The difference is 1) there's no demand for Ishtar; 2) there are no restrictions on buying it if one so desires; 3) there has never been moral opposition to it. Switch the comparison around to something that is very popular, but viewing it just might get you arrested, or perhaps cause division in a marriage, and those under 18 have a very, very hard time accessing it. Now take away a lot of those restrictions, especially something like pornography that in certain forms has been softened down to market to females. Also easily accessible by children/teens on the internet.

Really talking about two different animals here as porn isn't illegal (except in the case of involvement/viewership with minors). Weed IS illegal in most states. Take away the fear of arrest, fines, imprisonment, loss of job, and yes, LEGAL accessibility WILL drive demand. I don't use weed personally, but if I did, I would be much more likely to buy it without fear of consequence than I would if it still carries significant penalties if I'm caught buying or selling.
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but I doubt if you decided to use weed it would be the availability driving the demand behind your use. It would be because you're curious or stressed or whatever.

Now coercive actions can lower demand, but that's highly artificial. Removing them just puts the demand back where it would naturally be in a free market.

The more amusing thing to me is all the people saying that with increased availability will come with increased use, yet all those same people claim they wouldn't use with the increased availability.

plus availability in and of itself doesn't lead to increased use. Otherwise Holland would have more use than the US.

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Nate505 said:
With weed and porn there is a demand, but increased availability doesn't drive it. If it did people with no interest in it, like you I'm wagering, would start buying it.
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The situation is somewhat like Prohibition, wouldn't you agree? And people are generally agreed that Prohibition *did* cut down alcohol consumption. This article from the NY Times, for example, says

... alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.

Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.
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https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html

30-50% is pretty significant, I'd say. And then I believe it went back up by that same amount after Prohibition was repealed.

Why would marijuana be any different? I'd expect marijuana consumption to go up by about that same factor of 30-50% in states where it becomes fully legal.

Availability isn't the ONLY factor, but it absolutely will be a MAJOR factor.
 
colton said:
The situation is somewhat like Prohibition, wouldn't you agree? And people are generally agreed that Prohibition *did* cut down alcohol consumption. This article from the NY Times, for example, says


https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html

30-50% is pretty significant, I'd say. And then I believe it went back up by that same amount after Prohibition was repealed.

Why would marijuana be any different? I'd expect marijuana consumption to go up by about that same factor of 30-50% in states where it becomes fully legal.

Availability isn't the ONLY factor, but it absolutely will be a MAJOR factor.
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Didnt other crime go up though? (like possesion and distribution of alcohol)
 
fishonjazz said:
Didnt other crime go up though? (like possesion and distribution of alcohol)
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Prohibition had so many negative consequences, I'd say the gains in reducing the number of people who drank don't even come close to making up for it.

Corruption in the police, the courts and in politics.

Turning everyday street thugs into powerful forces within the community and many viewing them as esteemed figures instead of the low life criminals they were.

To me this is the biggest... average citizens scoffing at the law, seeing the law as irrelevant and relatively meaningless.

Giving people in the alcohol industry no legal recourse to settle conflicts, resulting in gang violence.

The people who continued to drink drank more.

It was no longer economically viable to make lower alcohol content beverages like wine and beer so hard liquor became the standard form of alcohol during and for decades after prohibition.

The quality and safety of alcohol went down considerably.

People lost their freedoms and spent time in jail and prison because of personal decisions about what they consumed.

The courts and prison system were burdened with prosecuting and housing people because of their personal consumption decisions.

Tax payers had to pay for it all.

edited to add

and prosecutions and convictions focused on poor people and minorities disproportionately.
 
carolinajazz said:
...is that because you are champion at "pocket pool?"
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I've been known to win a few trophies here and there.

Beantown said:
Yea my wife doesn't like porn, and she's not lying to herself.
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Right, she's just lying to you.

Beantown said:
What the **** is wrong with you? You must be surrounded by some disgusting *** women in your life to believe that all women watch porn. I feel bad for you son.
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There are plenty of board certified doctors out there who encourage pornography as healthy way to maintain vigor in married couples.

colton said:
The situation is somewhat like Prohibition, wouldn't you agree? And people are generally agreed that Prohibition *did* cut down alcohol consumption. This article from the NY Times, for example, says


https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html

30-50% is pretty significant, I'd say. And then I believe it went back up by that same amount after Prohibition was repealed.

Why would marijuana be any different? I'd expect marijuana consumption to go up by about that same factor of 30-50% in states where it becomes fully legal.

Availability isn't the ONLY factor, but it absolutely will be a MAJOR factor.
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Alcohol was legal before it was banned, so people who loved it but couldn't get it - or didn't want to go to jail - just picked up the habit again when it was legalized. Weed, on the other hand, has never been legal. You won't see the major uptick in users like you did with alcohol. Also, back then there weren't tons of medical facts and propaganda telling you to not drink, so almost everyone did it. There's enough anti-weed **** going around that most people that have never tried it probably won't give it a go when it's legal, and the majority of the users will be the people that had already been using before. Time will tell, of course, but that's just like, you know, my opinion, man.

Beantown said:
Do you have a learning disability or something?
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This is so tragically funny and ironic.
 
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