If Gobert and Mitchell both return, I'll watch the games and cheer

[One Brow]

There were a lot of things that went wrong at the end of 2021-22 season, and I'm not saying nothing needs to be changed. However, we're still talking about young men, who have the capacity for self-reflection and more motivation and ambition than I ever had. If both come back, they will need to change their relationship with each other, and that will be interesting to watch.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

I too will cheer. For whatever reason I just can't help myself. Perhaps being a fan for decades and getting old enough I don't compete in much anymore I need something to cheer for. My hope is that whoever plays gives more effort and desire. It is more fun to me to watch a team play hard and lose than coast and win. I'd personally like to see a coaching change more than anything else and see what more (if anything) could be accomplished with this group.

 

[infection]

I don't disagree, but there's gotta be some fertile soil for that growth. Right now there's a leadership vacuum and there's nobody more vocal or more wise in the locker room who can be looked up to. One of my serious doubts that has been proven pretty thoroughly over the past three years is that the psychological components of the game completely escape Quin. It is very Rain Man-like and I don't mean that as hyperbole. I do not believe he can advance past his own belief in what he feels is a sophisticated approach that completely fails to account for any non-tangible variables. He's an absolute non-factor in pushing, or even just being able to facilitate, that growth and change.

 

[NUMBERICA]

To quote @Handlogten's Heros : Keep ‘em both or trade ‘em both.

The scenario my fandom would struggle through is Donovan and friends dicking us all to a .500 record and dragging us through rumors until he eventually asks out for real and likely significantly harming the inevitable rebuild in the process.

The other scenario that would suck is not making SIGNIFICANT roster changes, even keeping Donovan and Gobert. This build is ****ed. Keeping Quin above all else is a majorly bitter pill to swallow. The situation between the three of him, Donovan, and Rudy is toxic.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

To quote @Handlogten's Heros : Keep ‘em both or trade ‘em both.

The scenario my fandom would struggle through is Donovan and friends dicking us all to a .500 record and dragging us through rumors until he eventually asks out for real and likely significantly harming the inevitable rebuild in the process.

The other scenario that would suck is not making SIGNIFICANT roster changes, even keeping Donovan and Gobert. This build is ****ed. Keeping Quin above all else is a majorly bitter pill to swallow. The situation between the three of him, Donovan, and Rudy is toxic.

I also think there is a huge opportunity to trade Donovan right now. I don’t agree that his value is the same or better in a year. What if the Knicks find a way to get to #4 and take Ivey… they still really motivated to get Donovan? The Heat offer would be meh… unless you could flip Herro to Sacramento for 4 or to Portland or NO… he could also sign an extension… then that offer goes pooooof!

An retrofit is dumb… I’m doubtful we do anything meaningful with Bogey or Mike in a trade. Keep ‘em both seems pretty rough too.

The economics of a tank would seem to work as well. Playoff gate more than dropping out of the tax and getting what could be a historic tax revenue share. The fans would likely be more “jazzed” about getting some young guys and building hope. Only game in town and games will still sell out or close to it. Around year 3 or 4 it might get ugly but hopefully getting the extra assets speeds up the process.

 

[Jingled]

I'll definitely still watch and cheer and hope for the best. Re-tooling around Rudy and Don with our lack of assets is going to be a lot easier said than done. Hopefully the front office can somehow make significant moves around Donovan and Rudy, and add a few wings with good size, length, athleticism and the ability to knock down an open shot and defend the perimeter...definitely a tall order.

I have to be honest though, at this point I'm pretty damn skeptical that we have the top end talent to be serious championship contenders. Even if the front office just completely knocks it out of the park this offseason, I don't think we're ever going to be good enough to win a championship with Rudy and Donovan as our two best players. Thats why I'd much rather just blow the whole thing up now and acquire as many draft picks and as much young talent as we possibly can. I fear that we're just going to kick the can down the road for another year or two and then end up blowing it up anyway, so why prolong the inevitable? It's possible that Rudy and Donovan's trade value won't be as high in the future as it is right now.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'll definitely still watch and cheer and hope for the best. Re-tooling around Rudy and Don with our lack of assets is going to be a lot easier said than done. Hopefully the front office can somehow make significant moves around Donovan and Rudy, and add a few wings with good size, length, athleticism and the ability to knock down an open shot and defend the perimeter...definitely a tall order.

I have to be honest though, at this point I'm pretty damn skeptical that we have the top end talent to be serious championship contenders. Even if the front office just completely knocks it out of the park this offseason, I don't think we're ever going to be good enough to win a championship with Rudy and Donovan as our two best players. Thats why I'd much rather just blow the whole thing up now and acquire as many draft picks and as much young talent as we possibly can. I fear that we're just going to kick the can down the road for another year or two and then end up blowing it up anyway, so why prolong the inevitable? It's possible that Rudy and Donovan's trade value won't be as high in the future as it is right now.

It's LIKELY that Rudy's value declines precipitously as he both gets older and his contract gets more expensive.

It's also worth mentioning that last offseason the organization knocked it out of the park but the team got worse because the situation only seems to get more toxic with time. Running back the same coach and top-7 guys is asinine beyond belief. There is something so obviously and seriously wrong in the locker room and there needs to be a serious shakeup at minimum.

 

[Avery]

Winning will cure everything.

If Rudy and DM can do that, fantastic. I'm just not convinced that them and their supporting cast can.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I dont like Mitchell at all really, but I suffered through the Al Jefferson years. This next mini phase will be nothing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Winning will cure everything.

If Rudy and DM can do that, fantastic. I'm just not convinced that them and their supporting cast can.

We were 20-7 to start the season.


I think there was always some fools gold with our team and approach.

I also think the vibes around the team were so terrible that bringing in a couple guys like Niang and favs helps but likely only temporarily.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's LIKELY that Rudy's value declines precipitously as he both gets older and his contract gets more expensive.

It's also worth mentioning that last offseason the organization knocked it out of the park but the team got worse because the situation only seems to get more toxic with time. Running back the same coach and top-7 guys is asinine beyond belief. There is something so obviously and seriously wrong in the locker room and there needs to be a serious shakeup at minimum.

I’m also concerned some teams fill their needs and some of the market dries up for Rudy and Donovan. They are not perfect fits everywhere. Which is really the issue with our team imo. If one or both of the all stars was super flexible the other parts could fit better and you might have a contender. The ****** thing is I think Donovan and Rudy actually complement each other well… but what you put around them needs to be guys that can all shoot and are good rangy defenders. 1 of them needs to be able to create a bit. If they had viewed Donovan as a point guard earlier I think they could accumulate enough wings by making every pick and big FA move or big trade about getting those guys. Those are guys tough to find at MLE… maybe one or two pure three and D types but the other ones that are more dynamic need to be from the draft or through giving up those draft assets for the exact right fit.

Now we need to do a complete overhaul and don’t have the time or assets to do it before our FA clock on Donovan runs out. Sucks.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I like both and wish they would work together, but unfortunately I see them as oil and water now.
Too much passive aggressive stuff going on, or outright dislike, even if it's not said out loud, said directly, or reported to the media.
We can tell that Rudy doesn't get passes he should or certain people helping on D. For all I know we probably have Gobert not running what DM wants on offense and we just don't know about it.?
We know the team chemistry took a huge hit when Ingles left. We know Rudy can and has called people out, and that if he's done so to the media then he probably does even more in person.
Some people can't take that type of criticism whether true or not.

I don't think DM has a personality that takes criticism well, but I can't know that for sure... just a hunch.

Oil and water. For that reason I think we will end up with one of them, or both of them going. I like both, and just based on my gut I think Gobert really wants to stay more than DM. DM wants to be the man and would stay but probably doesn't care where that happens... if it's here then great. I think Gobert might be actually want to stay here more. It's just a hunch, but that could be very wrong now after the FO changes and other people sticking their noses in where it doesn't belong. Ainge, Smith... I'm looking at you.
Maybe we trade whichever one we can that will get us not only the most talent back, but talent that will synergize with what we have remaining. Don't trade Gobert and bring back a rising star SG. That's crazy.

I predict we trade one, not both. I bet we keep most of the rest or we have Ainge trade away various guys for picks and cash. I wonder if the Panzer returns, but I don't see the Jazz going all in on a tank. Maybe Smith will prove me wrong though, who knows what that guy is thinking.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I enjoy following the league and enjoy the chase of trying to improve, so I'll follow the team regardless. The combination of Ainge, Zanik and ownership's desire to be in the spotlight actually make me optimistic for the future of this team. The real issue here is that Dennis Lindsey invested in a group of players who are now getting old, and the Jazz don't have young talent in the pipeline developing alongside Mitchell and Gobert. It puts them in a predicament.

Maybe it's still possible to retool around Gobert and Mitchell, but the Jazz don't have much in the way of assets to do it with. Gobert has value that can and probably should be moved while there's a market for him. Jazz can get assets for Gobert, but they won't likely bring back a star. Mitchell is a solid talent, but he's going to start exercising his leverage in advance of his free agency 2 years from now. That only gives the Jazz a 2-year window to rebuild around him. Jazz would be forced to move Mitchell or face another Gordon Hayward situation.

The ideal situation for any team, let alone a small-market team, is to acquire young talent that creates an elite core with at least a 5-year time window to play at a high level together. Boston acquired Brown and Tatum as 19 year-olds in back-to-back drafts. That gave Boston a solid foundation to build around, and you can see the results. Milwaukee has had Giannis and Khris Middleton to build around for several years, and it paid off. Golden State's core of Steph, Klay and Draymond are 34, 32 and 32, respectively. They have given the Warriors nearly a 10-year window of competitiveness and contention.

Right now, the Jazz are stuck with talent that's not good enough to make the NBA Finals, but also are without a coherent timeline to improve and get there. That's why I would advocate for flushing out most of the assets the Jazz do have in order to establish a timeline. There are no guarantees, obviously, but a new young core of Ivey, Eason and Daniels from this draft would be an amazing start. Then in next year's solid draft, the Jazz would get two more good, young prospects. The result should be three solid young players to build around, all between the ages of 19 and 22. From there, the Jazz can decide who to keep and how to fit pieces around them.

Otherwise....I mean, is Zach Lavine going to want to come to the Jazz and work a sign-and-trade?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Zach LaVine is one of the worst "star" fits next to Mitchell imaginable.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Zach LaVine is one of the worst "star" fits next to Mitchell imaginable.

He's not perfect, but the Jazz would continue to be a 55-win team and have a shot to break through to the WCF for the next couple years before Mitchell says he wants out.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He's not perfect, but the Jazz would continue to be a 55-win team and have a shot to break through to the WCF for the next couple years before Mitchell says he wants out.

It would be such a weird fit. One would have to clearly concede and it would be awkward for Mitchell if LaVine clearly surpasses him (which I would put at 50/50 shot)

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

It would be such a weird fit. One would have to clearly concede and it would be awkward for Mitchell if LaVine clearly surpasses him (which I would put at 50/50 shot)

Maybe, but it worked okay with Lavine and DeRozan in Chicago. The idea is to have a 1a/1b scenario, so when Donovan gets swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders, he has someone worthwhile to give the ball to.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

You know who had the best rebuild of any team I've ever seen? Orlando, when they drafted Shaq and Penny in back-to-back drafts. They were in the NBA Finals by Shaq's 3rd year.

Then there was the Boston Celtics team that traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in one off-season. They went from the worst record in the NBA to the best in one year.

Otherwise, teams need to draft multiple star players, develop them for 5+ years, and hope they don't demand to leave.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Maybe, but it worked okay with Lavine and DeRozan in Chicago. The idea is to have a 1a/1b scenario, so when Donovan gets swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders, he has someone worthwhile to give the ball to.

It worked out so well that now LaVine wants to leave one of the biggest markets in the NBA?

Plus Lavine/DeRozan are remarkably different as players.

 

[infection]

It would be such a weird fit. One would have to clearly concede and it would be awkward for Mitchell if LaVine clearly surpasses him (which I would put at 50/50 shot)

Mitchell and Conley for LaVine, Lonzo and LaVar.