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If not Rubio then what?

Alfalfa said:
Mitchell is our best offensive player. What are his weaknesses? I saw you mention his inability to shoot off the dribble. But that can be improved with time. Mitchell is a good passer, and he draws a ton of defensive attention, allowing him to create good opportunities for others. That is one of his biggest strengths. What weaknesses would be magnified if he played the point? What strengths would be diminished.
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1. He doesnt draw fouls at a high rate, or even a medium rate.
2. He doesnt shoot well off the dribble (or off the catch currently, but I think that's more sample size)
3. He is an incredible passer, at times, but he also gets tunnel vision and goes for the spectacular play when a better simple play is available
4. His natural instinct is scoring/shoot first. If you give him the ball more he is going to shoot more, then he is going to overthink if he is shooting too much and not getting others involved. The minutia of the position will likely interfere with his best traits as a player.
5. More responsibility = more fatigue, both physical and mental, when we have to rely on him in crunch time for self-creation isnt ideal.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
1. He doesnt draw fouls at a high rate, or even a medium rate.
2. He doesnt shoot well off the dribble (or off the catch currently, but I think that's more sample size)
3. He is an incredible passer, at times, but he also gets tunnel vision and goes for the spectacular play when a better simple play is available
4. His natural instinct is scoring/shoot first. If you give him the ball more he is going to shoot more, then he is going to overthink if he is shooting too much and not getting others involved. The minutia of the position will likely interfere with his best traits as a player.
5. More responsibility = more fatigue, both physical and mental, when we have to rely on him in crunch time for self-creation isnt ideal.
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How would it diminish his ability to get to the line? He's getting to the line 4.4 times a game. Which feels like an okay rate given he's a second year player. He'd draw more fouls if he was PG.

And his vision would also improve with experience. He'll never be John Stockton, but that's not what we need him to be.

The fourth point is speculative, I think. I believe he can adapt to the position and use his gravity to create better opportunities for himself. We would need another good scorer next to him, but I don't think it would worsen his shot selection.

Ya, I guess it would be a more exhausting position. I think that's a downside.
 
Alfalfa said:
1.How would it diminish his ability to get to the line? He's getting to the line 4.4 times a game. Which feels like an okay rate given he's a second year player. He'd draw more fouls if he was PG.

2. And his vision would also improve with experience. He'll never be John Stockton, but that's not what we need him to be.

3. The fourth point is speculative, I think. I believe he can adapt to the position and use his gravity to create better opportunities for himself. We would need another good scorer next to him, but I don't think it would worsen his shot selection.

Ya, I guess it would be a more exhausting position. I think that's a downside.
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1. Ignore how many times he gets to the line and focus on the free throw rate. That's what's important. I don't see how he is going to improve that with more to do. He will just get more fatigued, probably take worse shots, and hurt his free throw rate. He doesnt know how to draw fouls consistently, so I don't think him having the ball more is going to improve that. He gets the ball a lot as is, he has enough reps to learn these things in the flow of the game.

2. His vision is already really good, but his natural instincts arent a passer, it's scoring. Putting him in the consistent position of balancing the two isnt good for his best ability: scoring. Let him be a scorer who playmakes on the side.

3. I've showed the stats that he has been a less efficient player without Rubio next to him. It's not as speculative as you seem to believe.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
1. Ignore how many times he gets to the line and focus on the free throw rate. That's what's important. I don't see how he is going to improve that with more to do. He will just get more fatigued, probably take worse shots, and hurt his free throw rate. He doesnt know how to draw fouls consistently, so I don't think him having the ball more is going to improve that. He gets the ball a lot as is, he has enough reps to learn these things in the flow of the game.

2. His vision is already really good, but his natural instincts arent a passer, it's scoring. Putting him in the consistent position of balancing the two isnt good for his best ability: scoring. Let him be a scorer who playmakes on the side.

3. I've showed the stats that he has been a less efficient player without Rubio next to him. It's not as speculative as you seem to believe.
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I think some of that is due to his inexperience and his never having played the position. He can learn to conserve his energy, and how to better draw fouls. I don't think there is anything fundamental that would prevent him from excelling at the point. Harden wasn't thought of as a PG until a few years ago. Now, even with Paul on the team, he handles most of that responsibility.

But, I'm not married to the idea. Maybe it would be better to have another "floor general" beside him. One who can shoot. I can see how that'd be good.
 
This isn’t really the thread for this, but I’d much rather allocate the cap we’re spending on Exum to keep Burks.
 
Alfalfa said:
I think some of that is due to his inexperience and his never having played the position. He can learn to conserve his energy, and how to better draw fouls. I don't think there is anything fundamental that would prevent him from excelling at the point. Harden wasn't thought of as a PG until a few years ago. Now, even with Paul on the team, he handles most of that responsibility.

But, I'm not married to the idea. Maybe it would be better to have another "floor general" beside him. One who can shoot. I can see how that'd be good.
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Why do you want him to have to learn how to conserve energy rather than just focus on what he does at a high level and be elite at that? You really want him to start playing 0 defense like Westbrook cuz he is too tired?
 
Also, Mitchell would be well-served to round out his playing style by being tasked with distributing. Quin’s already started making that a point.

I also don’t think that removing a traditional point guard means that Mitchell has to initiate and/or create on every play.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Why do you want him to have to learn how to conserve energy rather than just focus on what he does at a high level and be elite at that? You really want him to start playing 0 defense like Westbrook cuz he is too tired?
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Fair enough. I understand that there are downsides to it. And you might be right. I'd still love to see it for a year or two.
 
And Harden is a great example.

He played PG, he was really good.

By the time the playoffs came around he fell off hard and he developed bad defensive habits due to too much responsibility. Then they added Paul, his defense got a lot better and they performed much better in the playoffs.

I've never said Mitchell can't be the PG. I'm just saying he shouldn't.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And Harden is a great example.

He played PG, he was really good.

By the time the playoffs came around he fell off hard and he developed bad defensive habits due to too much responsibility. Then they added Paul, his defense got a lot better and they performed much better in the playoffs.

I've never said Mitchell can't be the PG. I'm just saying he shouldn't.
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But even with Paul, Harden is still the main distributor and ball handler. I'd saying it's 65/35 just from watching them. Do you think it would be better with Paul handling most of the PG duties?
 
I think it's simple.

When Rubio is shooting somewhat competently. Rubio>Mitchell at PG.

But if Rubio is shooting as badly as he is now, it completely kills spacing and dudes sag off him, in that scenario Mitchell>Rubio at PG.
 
Alfalfa said:
But even with Paul, Harden is still the main distributor and ball handler. I'd saying it's 65/35 just from watching them. Do you think it would be better with Paul handling most of the PG duties?
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Am I arguing for bringing in a PG that gets more usage than Mitchell? Rubio doesnt do that. No PG we get is probably going to do that unless we add Walker.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I think it's simple.

When Rubio is shooting somewhat competently. Rubio>Mitchell at PG.

But if Rubio is shooting as badly as he is now, it completely kills spacing and dudes sag off him, in that scenario Mitchell>Rubio at PG.
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Sure, but Rubio is at an all-time low right now, so do you just abandon ship or do you wait it out?

I think the latter is obvious. Even if you are favor getting a trade done, that **** just doesnt happen until closer to the deadline, or at least after January 15th.
 
If we were to move Mitchell to the 1, then there's just no doubt that whomever replaces Rubio has to be good as a PnR ball handler. Even someone like Dinwiddie could work well. Not a floor general, obviously, but can take a lot of reps in the half court, and allow DM to focus on scoring (I agree with Cy on that point).

EDIT: Dinwiddie is unrestricted this offseason. He's pretty high on my list of free agents that I consider realistic.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Sure, but Rubio is at an all-time low right now, so do you just abandon ship or do you wait it out?

I think the latter is obvious. Even if you are favor getting a trade done, that **** just doesnt happen until closer to the deadline, or at least after January 15th.
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I agree. And this is kind of looking like a 'figure it out' year anyway. So sure, let him get his groove back.

My question is what happens when/if he does. If starting tonight he shooting decently the rest of the year, great. But what if it takes awhile again? Who is the real Rubio?

That would make it really tough this offseason.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I agree. And this is kind of looking like a 'figure it out' year anyway. So sure, let him get his groove back.

My question is what happens when/if he does. If starting tonight he shooting decently the rest of the year, great. But what if it takes awhile again? Who is the real Rubio?

That would make it really tough this offseason.
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I've been a staunch Rubio supporter....... But there's just no doubt in my mind that the beginning of this year -- his second in a stable system, with the same cast of players -- was the most important stretch of games in Rubio's career. He could have really changed the narrative about him as a player. And these are the results we're getting instead. It's disappointing.

We definitely cannot effort to sleepwalk to 25% of the season's losses because we have "slow starters."
 
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