Is Joe Johnson off the Jazz Tradable Assets List?

[infection]

I think Cy is viewing this very concretely -- believing that JJ is under contract for one more year and then he doesn't have any more value to us because he likely won't be here past next season. Many recognize JJ's value to the franchise beyond next season even if he is not on the roster. There are many different ways to appraise value. In this situation, Cy seems to think value is a state of being independent of the psychology of the game and can be represented better on paper, through statistics, or measured in assets. It's the man passing along his old beat up '99 Corolla to a struggling single mom while his friend is chiding him in bewilderment about how he just gave it away when he could have gotten at least $500 for it on Craigslist, completely failing to recognize the existence of an intangible value of his gift worth more to him than the tangible asset.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think Cy is viewing this very concretely -- believing that JJ is under contract for one more year and then he doesn't have any more value to us because he likely won't be here past next season. Many recognize JJ's value to the franchise beyond next season even if he is not on the roster. There are many different ways to appraise value. In this situation, Cy seems to think value is a state of being independent of the psychology of the game and can be represented better on paper, through statistics, or measured in assets. It's the man passing along his old beat up '99 Corolla to a struggling single mom while his friend is chiding him in bewilderment about how he just gave it away when he could have gotten at least $500 for it on Craigslist, completely failing to recognize the existence of an intangible value of his gift worth more to him than the tangible asset.

I'm not denying the value of JJ's professionalism and work ethic having an osmosis affect on Jazz players. I just think those lessons have been learned and passed on and now the Jazz players on the roster can take that and pass it on to future players. Sure, I'm sure the Jazz could benefit from being around JJ more, but I don't think the 3 extra months of veteran tutelage (the time past the deadline, when Im proposing we try to trade him) are more valuable than trying to replenish the Jazz's asset base.

 

[infection]

I'm not denying the value of JJ's professionalism and work ethic having an osmosis affect on Jazz players. I just think those lessons have been learned and passed on and now the Jazz players on the roster can take that and pass it on to future players. Sure, I'm sure the Jazz could benefit from being around JJ more, but I don't think the 3 extra months of veteran tutelage (the time past the deadline, when Im proposing we try to trade him) are more valuable than trying to replenish the Jazz's asset base.

Trading him for a second round pick (which you're alluding to but not outright saying) provides even less value than those "3 months of tuteledge." As a side note, I think there's more to it than just veteran leadership. If we traded him away to a situation that he'd prefer then fine, but cashing things in just for the sake of cashing things in is awfully silly. A second rounder, for hell's sake.

 

[NAOS]

Yeah, I get that. I'm not denying his value or importance at all (I just dont think the locker-room is going to implode if he is gone). His value is what makes him a tradeable player.

I also think there is value in putting the pressure in the hands of the young players to win games in the 4th quarter and not have them rely on JJ.

I really want to make the playoffs next year, but I'd rather make it on the strength of the core duo while developing Exum/Mitchell/Hood. I also don't think missing the playoffs would be the worst outcome in the world.

So the gloriously general and important concept of relationships, in the context of building a competitive basketball program, is, for you, reduced down all the way to "locker room dynamics". Gotcha.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Trading him for a second round pick (which you're alluding to but not outright saying) provides even less value than those "3 months of tuteledge." As a side note, I think there's more to it than just veteran leadership. If we traded him away to a situation that he'd prefer then fine, but cashing things in just for the sake of cashing things in is awfully silly. A second rounder, for hell's sake.

And a 2nd rounder for a team flooded with them, and whose history in the 11 years since Millsap that yielded the following NBA players (if you want to call them that): Kyrylo Fesenko, Jeremy Evans, and Raul Neto.

Knowing DL, it would be some PG that never puts on a uniform. It would also likely be a pick beyond the late-40's.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trading him for a second round pick (which you're alluding to but not outright saying) provides even less value than those "3 months of tuteledge." As a side note, I think there's more to it than just veteran leadership. If we traded him away to a situation that he'd prefer then fine, but cashing things in just for the sake of cashing things in is awfully silly. A second rounder, for hell's sake.

No, I think he would bring back multiple 2nd round picks and I think 2nd round picks are very valuable.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't know how people dismiss 2nd round picks so easily. I guess Kris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon, or Draymond Green arent valuable.

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[NUMBERICA]

No, I think he would bring back multiple 2nd round picks and I think 2nd round picks are very valuable.

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Seriously, what teams would even be able to and also want to trade for Johnson? Most good teams don't have $10 million in dead weight contracts or superfluous 2nds.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't know how people dismiss 2nd round picks so easily. I guess Kris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon, or Draymond Green arent valuable.

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We've been over this: they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Seriously, what teams would even be able to and also want to trade for Johnson? Most good teams don't have $10 million in dead weight contracts or superfluous 2nds.

This is true, but the distribution of assets will probably look different at the trade deadline than it does today.

But one team would be the Sixers. Still have a ton of 2nd rounders from the Hinkie era (good ones too). I could see their new FO really valuing JJ.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

We've been over this: they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Yes, but there seems to be at least one exception every year available in the 31-40 range.

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[infection]

I don't know how people dismiss 2nd round picks so easily. I guess Kris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon, or Draymond Green arent valuable.

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Those are all possibilities. But they're possibilities and not probabilities. I'd say the probabilities of JJ leading us to the WCF is likely a signficant amount greater than the probability of landing one of those guys in the second round. That's not to say I think JJ will do that, it's to say this is based on a dream scenario. Sure, you could say people discount second rounders because you can find gems like the guys above, but it'd be (at worst) just as rational (but actually much more rational) to say people overvalue second round picks because "I guess guys like Sean Lampley, Chris Taft and Shan Foster are valuable."