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Game Thread Jan 01, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Warriors

Added to Calendar: 01-01-22

Please do not let this forum turn into the grumpy old boys club that calls everything bad that happens “money ball” and “analytics” lmao. If you think the Jazz lost because of “money ball”, what do you think the Warriors are using? “Penny ball”.

Money ball is not a blanket term for everything you dislike lol.
 
Please do not let this forum turn into the grumpy old boys club that calls everything bad that happens “money ball” and “analytics” lmao. If you think the Jazz lost because of “money ball”, what do you think the Warriors are using? “Penny ball”.

Money ball is not a blanket term for everything you dislike lol.
I’ve been pretty specific in qualifying that it is a particular approach to moneyball where we’re doing things a specific way quite rigidly that works over large samples, and refuse to adapt because of an appeal to a strategy working over larger samples. Putting your money in an index fund is a wise long-term strategy when applied consistently. It takes out a lot of variability when you no longer act like a cat to a laser pointer with your investments. My son was given a school assignment for investing pretend money over a 6 week period. “Put it in index funds” isn’t really an answer that would maximize the time-frame of that particular assignment, even if it’s the right long-term course of action. The fact that we don’t differentiate between these and can’t respond accordingly, just appeal to the success long-term, is what the problem is and not necessarily “moneyball” itself. It’s the flawed view and application of moneyball.
 
I’ve been pretty specific in qualifying that it is a particular approach to moneyball where we’re doing things a specific way quite rigidly that works over large samples, and refuse to adapt because of an appeal to a strategy working over larger samples. Putting your money in an index fund is a wise long-term strategy when applied consistently. It takes out a lot of variability when you no longer act like a cat to a laser pointer with your investments. My son was given a school assignment for investing pretend money over a 6 week period. “Put it in index funds” isn’t really an answer that would maximize the time-frame of that particular assignment, even if it’s the right long-term course of action. The fact that we don’t differentiate between these and can’t respond accordingly, just appeal to the success long-term, is what the problem is and not necessarily “moneyball” itself. It’s the flawed view and application of moneyball.

If the application of money ball is not correct, it’s not money ball! If you don’t like how Quin is making his decisions, you could just as easily say we need MORE or BETTER money ball.

Money ball is a simplified blanket term to begin with, but the way it’s being used right now is 1) to describe poor application of analytics and or 2) as a label for anything we don’t like to begin with.

Just in the last game we tried two different strategies that could not have further rationale for playing those lineups. It’s not money ball that causes Quin to make every decision. People got to stop bringing it up every time something bad happens.
 
This is pretty disappointing by the Jazz. The 2 spot is right there for the taking. Phoenix is SLUMPING big time. They probably will lose today, making it 4 losses out of 5, with the injuries and COVID outbreak that hit them.

And the Jazz still can't get to 2nd? Major disappointment.
Dude, who cares what seed they're at in the end. It's plainly obvious they are not going to make it far again in the playoffs.
 

Not surprised. Anyone surprised by this hasn't been paying attention for the last 5 years. He's easily our most important and impactful player. He should have played all 48. Would have given us a chance to win.
 
I mean, if the Warriors are reasonably healthy we likely lose. Steph/Dray is an all-timer of a combo.

I like our squad, but we're not at that level.

But folks are really going all in on a game where we shot 32% from 3 and the Warriors shot 53%.
The problem is systemic. We missed wide open 3s and did nothing to bother their perimeter game. In a 7-game series we will win a couple of these by shooting better. But no way we win the series. And they were missing Green, the anointed DPOY, and Thompson. Add them into the mix and we don't stand a chance as presently configured.
 
I think the bigger issue connects what you’re talking about. The way Quin coaches leads me to believe his inflexibility is a result of attempting to more fully and consistently implement moneyball, approximating expected results over longer durations of time, so there’s no sense to develop any other strategies to make yourself more dynamic and able to respond on the fly because you need to cast your line in the water (execute moneyball) and let that line sit to maximize exposure. Even our defensive structure says moneyball and the numbers look good as a composite. But they can be exploited in any given moment. We’re good marathon runners. But that doesn’t help us when deciding who advances boils down to a few sprints. We’re not prepared at all for the sprints because we’re focused so much on the marathon and we pride ourselves on the amount of work and dedication that goes into being in the head of the pack for the marathon (it is undoubtedly impressive). When it’s you and four other people with a quarter mile left, sticking to your pace strategy becomes irrelevant. For Quin doing Ana amazing job getting himself into a position to win it, he mind-bogglingly falls back on his idea that keeping his rigid pace is what got him into contention through 25.95 miles and that there’s no sense in altering that approach, and ends up not being dynamic enough to respond to the specific situation in front of him.
Quin operates half by half. He only makes adjustments at the half. He rarely makes adjustments between quarters, and almost never during the actual quarter being played. This rings true with the money ball assessments. He can't make an adjustment mid-quarter because it would buck the numbers.
 
I don't get this waiving the white flag by some already. We were playing on a second night of a B2B while they were well rested, Donovan was missing everything, we were missing Hassan (which showed how valuable he is for us in letting us run the same defense as with Rudy). When we were down 16 I thought it would have ended in the blowout yet they rally back and fell short just in the end. Yes, Warriors are great but they are not the super team like before, we are not going to be a favourite against them but we have a chance.
 
I don't get this waiving the white flag by some already. We were playing on a second night of a B2B while they were well rested, Donovan was missing everything, we were missing Hassan (which showed how valuable he is for us in letting us run the same defense as with Rudy). When we were down 16 I thought it would have ended in the blowout yet they rally back and fell short just in the end. Yes, Warriors are great but they are not the super team like before, we are not going to be a favourite against them but we have a chance.
And playing at home, so there was that obstacle to deal with in addition to all the others.
 
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