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Game Thread Jan 21, 2021 8:00PM MT (TNT): Jazz vs. Pelicans

Added to Calendar: 01-21-21

One thing Shaq did for sure was put Donovan in the superstar conversation. Everyone today is asking the question "Is Donovan Mitchell a superstar? Does he have superstar potential?"
 
Hasn't Barkley always been the Jazz fan? What's Shaq's history regarding Utah?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Shaq also is consumed with going viral in everything... so that’s what he’s trying to do. It worked... but he’s still a stank *** ho. Shaq lost in the playoffs to Greg Ostertag... never forget.
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Stank *** ho
Lololololololol. Love it

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
What the tnt crew did with Mitchell was cringe worthy, but I also loved. This will only serve to make Mitchell and Gobert dig in even more and cause the team to rally even more. So thanks Shaq and the rest of those bungling idiots!! This basically put the jazz against the world, and I love it, buckle up for a newly focused jazz team.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
What the tnt crew did with Mitchell was cringe worthy, but I also loved. This will only serve to make Mitchell and Gobert dig in even more and cause the team to rally even more. So thanks Shaq and the rest of those bungling idiots!! This basically put the jazz against the world, and I love it, buckle up for a newly focused jazz team.
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Yeah, but it was more than that - it was disrespectful. You don't pull the rug out from a guy like that on live TV. Not to mention, why Mitchell? The one ****ing guy who treats the media with respect and gives thoughtful answers. What about Carmelo, John Wall, Harden, Blake Griffin, Paul George, Jimmy Butler....all those guys have been doing it longer and what team did they take to "the next level" (presumably he meant the finals)?

But this is Shaq - he's an insecure bully that goes after the easy targets - see his comments about Steve Nash when he won MVP in 2005.

Also, go back and watch his statement on TNT when Kobe died - 90% of what he said was about himself, lol. Jerkoff.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
What the tnt crew did with Mitchell was cringe worthy, but I also loved. This will only serve to make Mitchell and Gobert dig in even more and cause the team to rally even more. So thanks Shaq and the rest of those bungling idiots!! This basically put the jazz against the world, and I love it, buckle up for a newly focused jazz team.
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candrew said:
Yeah, but it was more than that - it was disrespectful. You don't pull the rug out from a guy like that on live TV. Not to mention, why Mitchell? The one ****ing guy who treats the media with respect and gives thoughtful answers. What about Carmelo, John Wall, Harden, Blake Griffin, Paul George, Jimmy Butler....all those guys have been doing it longer and what team did they take to "the next level" (presumably he meant the finals)?

But this is Shaq - he's an insecure bully that goes after the easy targets - see his comments about Steve Nash when he won MVP in 2005.

Also, go back and watch his statement on TNT when Kobe died - 90% of what he said was about himself, lol. Jerkoff.
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Andy Larsen had a great article about the comment where he diced them up thoroughly. What they do is damaging to the league. Jeff Van Gundy does it too... the back in my day **** is fine in small doses... but at some point you have to stop trashing the product that provides you with your income.

Side note - Andy is a really ****ing good writer.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
What the tnt crew did with Mitchell was cringe worthy, but I also loved. This will only serve to make Mitchell and Gobert dig in even more and cause the team to rally even more. So thanks Shaq and the rest of those bungling idiots!! This basically put the jazz against the world, and I love it, buckle up for a newly focused jazz team.
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It does fuel the narrative for both of those guys quite well though... so keep pissing em off.
 
I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).
 
NUMBERICA said:
I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).
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I would counter that the team is well built so that we don't need all of that. But we do need Mitchell's alpha scoring ability which is the rarest trait. We have multiple ball handlers so I don't think assists are all that important. We have bigs that handle the rebounding. And Rudy's defense is his biggest trait so that doesn't need to be mind warping. But yes, leadership, controlling the pace and alpha scoring is what we need to from Mitchell.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).
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Originally he said like 4 ways... then listed six... said you need 2 of the 4 or 4 of 6... It was off the top of his head. I would not take it to heart.

Even within scoring there are many nuances. Are Klay Thompsons 20 points equal to Demar Derozan?

The general tone of "DM needs to do more than score" is fine but it wasn't articulated well imo. He does a little bit of that stuff and likely can improve... He doesn't have the shut down defense of Kawhi or the mega creation that Lebron has, but I also don't think he's one dimensional. He can create for himself and others at volume and has tremendous off ball value... those are super valuable. He's a good leader (improving imo). He could be a good defender... he shows flashes. He isn't good enough to will his team to a title by himself but in this era neither is Lebron. I think he can be good enough to be the best primary offensive player on a title team and that if he has someone as good or slightly better than he is overall that he can win a title.

Kenny is the best "analyst" on the show... Ernie is a great host...Chuck is funny as hell... Shaq is a cringy cheeseball that wants to go viral. Adam Leffkoe had an interview where he talked about how he's consumed by it... its why he takes the cheap one liner shots at guys. He got his viral moment... congrats everyone saw you being a stank *** ho.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).
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Thing is, Donovan isn't being coached to crash the boards- we've seen that he can, when he tries, but he has great rebounders under the basket and we want pace, which means being down the floor if possible. Westbrook piled up stats because he was ball dominant and the bigs stepped out of his way, Donovan is still a part-time PG and the team doesn't want him on the glass. He's not ever going to collect a bunch of triple-doubles playing in this system and with these teammates.

We have seen his passing progress, but its been a challenge for him to do without piling on turnovers. That will come and we'll see plenty of double digit assist nights in the future, and I think he'll end up with a better playoff record than Russ.
 
JazzFever said:
Thing is, Donovan isn't being coached to crash the boards- we've seen that he can, when he tries, but he has great rebounders under the basket and we want pace, which means being down the floor if possible. Westbrook piled up stats because he was ball dominant and the bigs stepped out of his way, Donovan is still a part-time PG and the team doesn't want him on the glass. He's not ever going to collect a bunch of triple-doubles playing in this system and with these teammates.

We have seen his passing progress, but its been a challenge for him to do without piling on turnovers. That will come and we'll see plenty of double digit assist nights in the future, and I think he'll end up with a better playoff record than Russ.
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The thing is, the guys who will do those things but have their teams lose, they’ll go to bat for them.

Last night someone commented (Reggie? I can’t remember) about how we’re not in the top discussion with the LA teams because we blew a 3-1 lead against Denver.
 
whatthe said:
I would counter that the team is well built so that we don't need all of that. But we do need Mitchell's alpha scoring ability which is the rarest trait. We have multiple ball handlers so I don't think assists are all that important. We have bigs that handle the rebounding. And Rudy's defense is his biggest trait so that doesn't need to be mind warping. But yes, leadership, controlling the pace and alpha scoring is what we need to from Mitchell.
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You're not wrong about most of that, but I would say that given how weak the Jazz's perimeter defense often is, there is plenty of need and room for improvement from such an elite physical specimen for a guard and who came into the league billed as a defensive force. I think it's simply focus and effort, and I'll settle for him picking up the intensity more often when possessions matter more (end of game situations, key matchups, etc.).

Also, if he could convert his wild, terrible turnovers into assists, I don't think getting to double digits (a somewhat arbitrary threshold, sure) would be that rare. While stat-padding shouldn't be his goal, it is legitimately stunning that a player with his usage rate has only gotten double-digit assists once in >3 seasons.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).
Click to expand...
I would also argue that Mitchell's "gravity" creates shots for others. Jazz take a lot of open threes, often because of a cascading imbalance because of the fear of Donovan driving. It's the same stuff you would get from Tony Parker, wen he would drive and it would suck the entire defense away from the three point line. Donovan drives, kicks out to the perimeter, player makes one more pass to an open three. The second player gets the assist, but Donny created the shot.

Ultimately the biggest knock on Donovan is that he doesn't go to the line enough. Mainly because he doesn't foul bait in a comical fashion.
 
I also think the if the Jazz play with consistent effort and focus, they're actually a nightmare matchup for the Clippers:
-Clippers are known to have scant intangibles like chemistry or leadership. Kawhi is the most aloof superstar ever and PG is a paper tiger.
-Ibaka gives them an element they didn't have last year, but he's not a reliable shooter and Zubac doesn't shoot at all.
-They play two tiny guards also.
 
framer said:
Mainly because he doesn't foul bait in a comical fashion.
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I'm torn on this. I think refs should give these types the benefit of the doubt more often but officials have gotten even worse at making calls based on reactions instead of what they actually see. Its so effective but its not fun to watch at all. I think I'd like to see him get to the line a little more but I don't want anything approaching the James Harden or Trae Young level of BS.
 
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