January 2021 State of the Jazz Address


Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Oh, and since Lopo has very much made it clear that the size of your contract dictates the level of criticism you should receive, will complaining about Mitchell's defense next year be fair game?
 


LoPo

Well-Known Member
Oh, and since Lopo has very much made it clear that the size of your contract dictates the level of criticism you should receive, will complaining about Mitchell's defense next year be fair game?
Once again Cy, address the problem at hand instead of taking shots at me.

I have said numerous times in numerous threads and even in this thread that Don's defense has been inadequate. It's not good enough.
 

MilesDeep

Well-Known Member
Lopo, if Don became Jordan overnight, that would be enough. Arrange that, would you? At his best, Donovan isn't in the same realm as Jordan on either end. There is 5.5" of height diff, so that matters.
 

whatthe

Well-Known Member
It's a super political time. Smart comments and healing rhetoric could be a big help from athletes right now. It could reach the male audience.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
Still not the point.

Answer me this - if Donovan somehow became Gary Payton on defense, would we have enough to win the title?

My answer is no because nobody can be expected to maintain top notch defense for 48 minutes. What we need is for Don to improve AND add more perimeter defense. We simply lack the perimeter defense we need unless Oni, Shaq and Hughes emerge and are actually trusted by Quin. And then we would have to lessen the minutes for Don, Clarkson and Conley to get the much needed defender out there.

Yes, I think we’re a contender if Don was suddenly the best perimeter defender in the league. That would make him a superstar and elevate the team.

If we add a perimeter defender do we have enough to win the title? No we don’t. We’re not close. We need a superstar talent and Donovan is our chance at that.

We can always improve on the margins. Every team can improve on the margins. But the core thing that is preventing the Jazz from being a contender is not the lack of a perimeter defender, it’s a lack of top end talent.

Think of every contender in the league. They are not contenders because of their role players. They are contenders because of their elite talent.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
I agree. The dynamic wing mention is there to really address that I know we have issues there too. I've long thought our ultimate destiny rests on how high DM can take us. When he came into the league folks thought he was gonna be a better version of Avery Bradley.

Quin needs to challenge him on that end... even if that means we have some bad nights when he gets smoked.

Agreed. We definitely need a dynamic wing, but our ceiling is attached to Don. We can always do better on the margins, but this team will go as far as his development takes us. I can talk about the margins all day, but in reality it’s premium talent that wins. None of our moves this off season mattered more than Mitchell and Gobert extensions, for example.

It’s frustrating because the step required for Mitchell to be average or plus is to put more effort in. He was at that level as a rookie, but his effort has disappeared over the years. On Team USA he looked every bit the defender that Marcus Smart was and his defense was made the coaches consider him the top player on the squad.

If Quin challenged him and made it a point of emphasis for development, I really think he could be an all NBA defender. Especially if he’s guarding players his size.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Yes, I think we’re a contender if Don was suddenly the best perimeter defender in the league. That would make him a superstar and elevate the team.

If we add a perimeter defender do we have enough to win the title? No we don’t. We’re not close. We need a superstar talent and Donovan is our chance at that.

We can always improve on the margins. Every team can improve on the margins. But the core thing that is preventing the Jazz from being a contender is not the lack of a perimeter defender, it’s a lack of top end talent.

Think of every contender in the league. They are not contenders because of their role players. They are contenders because of their elite talent.
He was a top end talent the entire series against Denver. We didn't lose because Don wasn't a superstar. He was a superstar in that series. We lost because we didn't have enough perimeter defending. There is no way he could have carried us on offense if he was the one who had to stop Murray too.

Putting our entire team on Don is so dumb. He can't do it all.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
He was a top end talent the entire series against Denver. We didn't lose because Don wasn't a superstar. He was a superstar in that series. We lost because we didn't have enough perimeter defending. There is no way he could have carried us on offense if he was the one who had to stop Murray too.

Putting our entire team on Don is so dumb. He can't do it all.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

If that is the player Don is, then we're good. I don't think that's the player he is. He's not a 36 PPG player who shoots 50% from 3. But if he is that player, sure, a perimeter defender is our most pressing need.

The entire team isn't on Don. But Don is the only one capable of elevating this team. A perimeter defender does not elevate us to being a contender. Don being a superstar is what keeps us from being a contender. No one else can do that.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
2019, Korver
2020, Clarkson
2021, who's next? Good news is that our savior won't come at the expense of our draft picks thus time cuz there is no more pick to give.
 

hgb

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Don - foundational piece and one for the long term
Pro's - he's a fantastic offensive player who is still improving
Con's - not a good defender
Also definitely on the cons list, he has _way_ too many TOs, very many of them just poor decisions. A fair amount of his completed passes are also quite lucky, and was really a bad decision that happened to work out IMO.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Bojan was just on fire last game. I really doubt he has fallen off after a career year just because of a wrist injury. He'll work through it.
One good game followed by three horrible games. What else is new. Joe Johnson already done that for us. In playoffs too, which Bojan didn't even play. Except when Iso Joe finally start giving us one good game followed by five poor games we finally lost our cool and traded his *** away. Just not sure how many draft picks would it take us this time to unload Bojan’s much more horrendous contract.
 

SoUjazzfan

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see Mitchell's reaction to upcoming criticism and all star snub if he continues to struggle. Will he sulk and blame those around him, or step it up. It was mentioned last night ( or perhaps against Brooklyn) how he was pointing out missed assignments on defense during a time out when he'd been beat multiple times. I think it's good to have accountability but you have to look in the mirror on occasion. To this point this year he's talked the talk, I just hope he starts walking the walk. (Personally I feel he will.)
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
One good game followed by three horrible games. What else is new. Joe Johnson already done that for us. In playoffs too, which Bojan didn't even play. Except when Iso Joe finally start giving us one good game followed by five poor games we finally lost our cool and traded his *** away. Just not sure how many draft picks would it take us this time to unload Bojan’s much more horrendous contract.
Jazz would get a 1st rounder and expiring contracts back for Bogey, bare minimum. You are way overreacting, but that's your thing I guess.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see Mitchell's reaction to upcoming criticism and all star snub if he continues to struggle. Will he sulk and blame those around him, or step it up. It was mentioned last night ( or perhaps against Brooklyn) how he was pointing out missed assignments on defense during a time out when he'd been beat multiple times. I think it's good to have accountability but you have to look in the mirror on occasion. To this point this year he's talked the talk, I just hope he starts walking the walk. (Personally I feel he will.)
He isnt playing nearly well enough for it to be considered a snub.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
It will be interesting to see Mitchell's reaction to upcoming criticism and all star snub if he continues to struggle. Will he sulk and blame those around him, or step it up. It was mentioned last night ( or perhaps against Brooklyn) how he was pointing out missed assignments on defense during a time out when he'd been beat multiple times. I think it's good to have accountability but you have to look in the mirror on occasion. To this point this year he's talked the talk, I just hope he starts walking the walk. (Personally I feel he will.)
His struggles this year are weird. He's just so unfocused and generally just off. I'm officially worried and hope he is right physically and mentally.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I think Ryan Smith figured out how to fix this... offering a scholarship to an under- privileged kid for every win. Don't hustle and try hard every night... well I guess you are against education of under-privileged kids. If this doesn't work he will start donating a $1M to cancer research... the nuclear option is for every loss he will murder a puppy... everyone is pro-puppy.

Side note outside of the jokes... pretty cool thing for Ryan to do.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I think it's extremely stupid to reduce everything down to the backcourt is too small that's why they can't defend.

Remember, on the perimeter wingspan is typically more important than reach. Both Mitchell and Conley have giant wingspans relative to their height.

Conley has a 6'6 WS and Mitchell a 6'10. Even Clarkson has a 6'10 wingspan.

I get that standing reach is also obviously a factor, but even if you account for that, then the two metrics would average out to the backcourt being average sized at worst. I think it's just such an easy thing to harp on and scapegoat since height is the easiest thing to see.
Having the wing span and using the wing span are 2 different things. If wing span is the deciding factor why are Conley and Mitchell not DPOY candidates, or even decent defenders, or get toasted by bigger and taller players on the reg. All things being equal, a 6'6" player with a 6'10" wing span will be more dominant than a 6'1" player with a 6'10" wing span. Because there is a lot more to it than wing span.

It is almost like you are reducing perimeter D to wing span. Hmmm.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
His struggles this year are weird. He's just so unfocused and generally just off. I'm officially worried and hope he is right physically and mentally.
Actually I am beginning to question his BBIQ. He often gets into spots where it is obvious he has no idea what to do, like he can't read the play. His iso is so good, and his athleticism and pure scoring skill is so solid, that we don't see the other parts of the game so much...when he is on. Now that he isn't "on" we are seeing that he isn't a very good decision-maker when under pressure, and he often makes a bad read. Does he just really not get the entirety of the game? Think about his greatest performances, they are almost exclusively him scoring off hero-ball, and going nuclear. Alone. He doesn't rack up triple-doubles, he doesn't get high assist numbers, or steals. He is just not a complete player, and the parts he is missing are the parts we are generally missing as a team. That is a huge void to fill. And with his offensive game MIA he is a negative on the court in general, even if he does chuck enough to get his 20 points.

I am very worried indeed. Fools gold can look really good until you get it under the microscope.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Having the wing span and using the wing span are 2 different things. If wing span is the deciding factor why are Conley and Mitchell not DPOY candidates, or even decent defenders, or get toasted by bigger and taller players on the reg. All things being equal, a 6'6" player with a 6'10" wing span will be more dominant than a 6'1" player with a 6'10" wing span. Because there is a lot more to it than wing span.

It is almost like you are reducing perimeter D to wing span. Hmmm.
You completely misread that, so try again.
 

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