Jazz acquire NAW and Juancho Hernangomez for Ingles, Hughes, and two 2nd round picks.

[Handlogten's Heros]

Butler isn't good enough to dominate the ball the way Mike Conley and Donovan do. He needs to be a third guard, like George Hill, and keep the ball moving.

Neither are JC or Trent and sure as hell NAW ain't it. JB doesn't dominate the ball. He dribbles and creates... outside of Donovan he might be the best player we have at getting separation... hasn't quite figured out how to capitalize on it but we've seen how far Udoka came with a little steady playing time.

Also, we are asking him to do one of the hardest things a player can do.... toggle between making plays and moving the ball in an NBA offense and we aren't gonna give you any time to figure it out. He's done well creating... give him some minutes to marinate... if not for the medical red flags he would have been taken in the

NAW is an okayish prospect but JB is likely better at all the things you want from NAW... you don't get any bonus points for extra wingspan or draft status. As of right now the JB mystery box is better/more promising than what we've seen out of NAW.

Put it this way... when people list all the things NAW needs to work on write that **** down... then compare it to the list of things JB needs to work on. Realize that JB is a rookie and doing this for the first time and tell me who has a better chance at success.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Neither are JC or Trent and sure as hell NAW ain't it. JB doesn't dominate the ball. He dribbles and creates... outside of Donovan he might be the best player we have at getting separation... hasn't quite figured out how to capitalize on it but we've seen how far Udoka came with a little steady playing time.

Also, we are asking him to do one of the hardest things a player can do.... toggle between making plays and moving the ball in an NBA offense and we aren't gonna give you any time to figure it out. He's done well creating... give him some minutes to marinate... if not for the medical red flags he would have been taken in the

NAW is an okayish prospect but JB is likely better at all the things you want from NAW... you don't get any bonus points for extra wingspan or draft status. As of right now the JB mystery box is better/more promising than what we've seen out of NAW.

Put it this way... when people list all the things NAW needs to work on write that **** down... then compare it to the list of things JB needs to work on. Realize that JB is a rookie and doing this for the first time and tell me who has a better chance at success.

Time will tell, but NAW may be the better player in pick-and-roll, which is what will bring a twinkle to Quin's eye. Also, the size and wingspan likely make him a more switchable defender. No doubt that JB is the better shooter and pure passer.

For whatever reason, Quin has had Forrest ahead of Butler in the rotation all season. I'm not sure what's going to make that change this year.

 

[homeytennis]

Not to rain on the JB parade but he has played some stinky games with the Stars where the Stars were blown out. Was he too good to be playing in the minors or was it something else? I think that is part of the reason Forrest is ahead of him in the rotation. There was also the NBA game where he and Trent had 15 TOs between them. Quin might have made a mental note to file him with DedEx and Oni.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not to rain on the JB parade but he has played some stinky games with the Stars where the Stars were blown out. Was he too good to be playing in the minors or was it something else? I think that is part of the reason Forrest is ahead of him in the rotation. There was also the NBA game where he and Trent had 15 TOs between them. Quin might have made a mental note to file him with DedEx and Oni.

Quin didn't even check out the box score.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Time will tell, but NAW may be the better player in pick-and-roll, which is what will bring a twinkle to Quin's eye. Also, the size and wingspan likely make him a more switchable defender. No doubt that JB is the better shooter and pure passer.

For whatever reason, Quin has had Forrest ahead of Butler in the rotation all season. I'm not sure what's going to make that change this year.

Quin like Forrest more... not an indictment on JB. JB hasn't run pick and roll at all. Its not what he has been asked to do... I'm going to go ahead and say that a guy with his ability to get where he wants on the court will do better than NAW who has run a **** ton of pick and roll and is bad at it.

NAW likely stays behind Forrest and JB on the depth chart but who knows... maybe Ainge lets Quin know he needs to play a bit.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Neither are JC or Trent and sure as hell NAW ain't it. JB doesn't dominate the ball. He dribbles and creates... outside of Donovan he might be the best player we have at getting separation... hasn't quite figured out how to capitalize on it but we've seen how far Udoka came with a little steady playing time.

Also, we are asking him to do one of the hardest things a player can do.... toggle between making plays and moving the ball in an NBA offense and we aren't gonna give you any time to figure it out. He's done well creating... give him some minutes to marinate... if not for the medical red flags he would have been taken in the

NAW is an okayish prospect but JB is likely better at all the things you want from NAW... you don't get any bonus points for extra wingspan or draft status. As of right now the JB mystery box is better/more promising than what we've seen out of NAW.

Put it this way... when people list all the things NAW needs to work on write that **** down... then compare it to the list of things JB needs to work on. Realize that JB is a rookie and doing this for the first time and tell me who has a better chance at success.

I like Butler as a prospect that doesnt mean NAW cant have good upside too. They are playing different positions and provide different needs. We need a wing prospect like NAW to develop and wingspan, height, athleticism and such do give you bonus points. Where you were drafted does as well because it shows there was an upside seen from previous play. It is safe to assume NO wasnt the best place for him. They really should not be competing for playing time much. JB and Forrest are competing for playing time. I think they both need a little more playing time, but its clear that Forrest is doing a good job and it will be hard for JB to overtake him this year. House and NAW will compete for time right now. But my guess is House will win that out for this year.

This trade for him was to develop someone at a position/player of need. That is why I dont care much about the trade for this year and didnt really like we didnt do more.

But the ball does stick with Butler. His average time per touch is 5.3 seconds which is the most on the team. That might be a product of garbage time, but I dont know if that makes it better.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I like Butler as a prospect that doesnt mean NAW cant have good upside too. They are playing different positions and provide different needs. We need a wing prospect like NAW to develop and wingspan, height, athleticism and such do give you bonus points. Where you were drafted does as well because it shows there was an upside seen from previous play. It is safe to assume NO wasnt the best place for him. They really should not be competing for playing time much. JB and Forrest are competing for playing time. I think they both need a little more playing time, but its clear that Forrest is doing a good job and it will be hard for JB to overtake him this year. House and NAW will compete for time right now. But my guess is House will win that out for this year.

This trade for him was to develop someone at a position/player of need. That is why I dont care much about the trade for this year and didnt really like we didnt do more.

But the ball does stick with Butler. His average time per touch is 5.3 seconds which is the most on the team. That might be a product of garbage time, but I dont know if that makes it better.

I'm aware they are different. The post I was responding too was talking about things we'd want from NAW and he has proven to be pretty bad and JB/Forrest would likely be much better. I was more arguing the point that I doubt that is what they want from him since he's been awful at it.

With regard to bonus points... wasn't an evaluation per se... more saying if you are short and put the ball in the basket or tall and put the ball in the basket and its worth 2 points. JB was projected to go just as high as NAW but was medically red flagged... if healthy he has just as much pedigree as NAW.

The trade was about saving money this year... type all the words you'd like... I won't be convinced it was more than that until I see him play in non-garbage time. I think he's an okay prospect with a nice physical profile, but he hasn't shown to be a good defender and the offensive skill set is worse than JB's imo.

The ball might "stick" but I don't think he is doing unproductive things with it. When I think of ball stoppers its guys taking worthless dribbles and drives to knowhere... in that sense Forrest is less productive with his time per touch imo. I don't know the numbers but the offense can halt a number of ways. Forrest catching in the corner and then kicking it to Royce who then looks for someone to throw it to for example. I would like to see them embrace the talent a bit rather than just make him a ball mover. He needs to work on shooting the ball when he is open in catch and shoot situations but when you play in 2 minute bursts its hard to be in rhythm.

I like Forrest and in the last 2 weeks I get why he is above him on the depth chart. I think both guys are better prospects than NAW. If NAW is competing with House for playing time then his *** gonna be glued to the bench. House is great in his role and NAW has never been that guy... its 100% theoretical that he can even do it. Imagine looking and JC's physical profile and athleticism and then assuming it translates into an amazing pesky defender.

 

[homeytennis]

I wonder if Quin might adjust things to play the regular season out much like its expanded preseason and give guys a night or two off and play the entire roster. Let the older players coast a little and play them just enough to keep their wind.

 

[infection]

I wonder if Quin might adjust things to play the regular season out much like its expanded preseason and give guys a night or two off and play the entire roster. Let the older players coast a little and play them just enough to keep their wind.

 

[LogGrad98]

JB is already better at the things you mentioned than NAW. The whole idea behind NAW being hot garbage was he was used incorrectly and that he needs to go off ball more.

I don't get the JB stops the ball problem. He stops the ball so he can create for himself and others which he has enormous potential to do at a high level. He's a point guard primarily... its what they are supposed to do.

They may have a plan for NAW but it will be more along the lines of a second/third creator and I think there is a strong possibility they liked NAW okay but had to eat the deal to get the max savings they could for Joe this year.

I think we are really missing on a gem by not giving JB more PT. He has shown he can handle the ball, create for himself and others, hit open shots, and even create his own shot in a pinch. He needs more PT because he has the potential to be what we wish Forrest was...a good backup PG with defensive chops but who can hit the 3.

 

[infection]

I think we are really missing on a gem by not giving JB more PT. He has shown he can handle the ball, create for himself and others, hit open shots, and even create his own shot in a pinch. He needs more PT because he has the potential to be what we wish Forrest was...a good backup PG with defensive chops but who can hit the 3.

You’re doing it all wrong. If you want JB to see more burn, we need to hype the hell out of NAW.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we are really missing on a gem by not giving JB more PT. He has shown he can handle the ball, create for himself and others, hit open shots, and even create his own shot in a pinch. He needs more PT because he has the potential to be what we wish Forrest was...a good backup PG with defensive chops but who can hit the 3.

I get why Forrest is ahead of him... I just wish they put a little more thought into his development given his contract status. I think he has upside to be a good starting point guard in the league. I'm not sure of a great comp... maybe a Monte Morris with a little more creation. The stuff he can do with the ball is great... just hasn't quite gotten the shots to drop consistently once he makes a move. He also gets his hands on the ball a lot.

If we had him on a 4 year deal I wouldn't really be worried about playing time this year. Could be more patient with him.