Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[Handlogten's Heros]

Katz on the RealGM show said something interesting - it seems like the Knicks want to keep enough picks so they would be able to pursue another big time player in 2024. With that said... here's what I came up with...

Filler, Topin, Grimes/Quickley
23 NYK, 29NYK
DAL 23
WAS 23
DET 23
Pick swaps 26, 28

This leaves NYK 4 picks to try to get another star in 24 - NYK 25, NYK 27, NYK 31, MKE 25 + swaps. (they might even include whoever they draft in 24 in the deal after the draft(like we got Kessler).

The awkward thing is... this is starting to become ridiculous for us with the number of picks in the 2023 draft. This would be 7 1st rounders if they all convert. But reality is - a lot of those won't (DAL converts, DET - probably not, WAS probably not)...

We still get one premier assett in an unprotected 29 NYK pick and we get two valuable swaps in case NYK collapses after Don's contract is up.

I want three unprotected picks from the Knicks full stop. I have seen this type of logic… from Katz and others. I want 23/26/28 which would give them 24,30 plus RJ or Brunson to use in a deal.

Out of the goodness of our hearts we aren’t insisting on RJ… they want a deal under that scenario then the draft capital needs to be grade A ****. If it’s 3 unprotected picks instead of 4 then we should get Toppin Grimes and Quickley. If they push back then let them pick 1 and give us that other protected pick. They can keep the grade B picks to make their second trade.

I just think we are starting to settle too much if this is where it’s headed. The Heat package of Herro plus three unprotected picks and three swaps plus Jovic is better than these. Knicks get so much value out of their past failures but looking forward if they have Donovan, RJ, Brunson and still have enough **** to do a deal then they very well could be decent. Heat would have Don and Bam but Jimmy is old and combustible and they’d have no draft picks and limited space.

I think Herro is very obviously better than Grimes, Toppin, and Quickley though. I also think you could make his next deal a declining contract and have it be a great value in 3 years when you are trying to be good.

 

[stitches]

I want three unprotected picks from the Knicks full stop. I have seen this type of logic… from Katz and others. I want 23/26/28 which would give them 24,30 plus RJ or Brunson to use in a deal.

Out of the goodness of our hearts we aren’t insisting on RJ… they want a deal under that scenario then the draft capital needs to be grade A ****. If it’s 3 unprotected picks instead of 4 then we should get Toppin Grimes and Quickley. If they push back then let them pick 1 and give us that other protected pick. They can keep the grade B picks to make their second trade.

I just think we are starting to settle too much if this is where it’s headed. The Heat package of Herro plus three unprotected picks and three swaps plus Jovic is better than these. Knicks get so much value out of their past failures but looking forward if they have Donovan, RJ, Brunson and still have enough **** to do a deal then they very well could be decent. Heat would have Don and Bam but Jimmy is old and combustible and they’d have no draft picks and limited space.

I think Herro is very obviously better than Grimes, Toppin, and Quickley though. I also think you could make his next deal a declining contract and have it be a great value in 3 years when you are trying to be good.

Yeah, that's where I'm heading too... the Heat package truly is not that horrible if we are not getting any of the NYK good picks or players.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Knicks shouldnt need picks to get multiple star. They should be clearing cap for a star and using the picks to add role players (or draft since they seem to be doing a good job at drafting in the 20's).

I listened to the same pod and I thought it was weird when he said that. Using the picks to get the 1st star makes sense, but then you should be able to use that star to attract another one if you are in a market like NYC.

And it isn’t our responsibility here to make sure they have enough stuff left to do both. RJ could be a “star” we let them keep that… they can use the lesser picks to offload Randle if they need to.

The low bar for me is 3 unprotected picks, 1 far out swap, Obi/Quickley or Grimes, Rose, Reddish, and the Dallas and Detroit picks they own. If they want to sub in Fournier or keep Obi then it costs em extra… do both and I want the other unprotected pick.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I want three unprotected picks from the Knicks full stop. I have seen this type of logic… from Katz and others. I want 23/26/28 which would give them 24,30 plus RJ or Brunson to use in a deal.

Out of the goodness of our hearts we aren’t insisting on RJ… they want a deal under that scenario then the draft capital needs to be grade A ****. If it’s 3 unprotected picks instead of 4 then we should get Toppin Grimes and Quickley. If they push back then let them pick 1 and give us that other protected pick. They can keep the grade B picks to make their second trade.

I just think we are starting to settle too much if this is where it’s headed. The Heat package of Herro plus three unprotected picks and three swaps plus Jovic is better than these. Knicks get so much value out of their past failures but looking forward if they have Donovan, RJ, Brunson and still have enough **** to do a deal then they very well could be decent. Heat would have Don and Bam but Jimmy is old and combustible and they’d have no draft picks and limited space.

I think Herro is very obviously better than Grimes, Toppin, and Quickley though. I also think you could make his next deal a declining contract and have it be a great value in 3 years when you are trying to be good.

Pretty much where I’m at. The Knicks aren’t including Barrett and now they only want to include 2 1sts and Knicks fans were still complaining about that Andy trade when it was terrible lmao. At this point tell them you’re going to take the Miami offer and make them beat it. If they don’t and it comes out they had the chance to I think Leon Rose could be packing his bags (he’s trash regardless of what happens). The one saving grace for us is James Dolan is their owner and he will likely step in here pretty soon to make sure the deal gets done.

 

[LogGrad98]

Katz on the RealGM show said something interesting - it seems like the Knicks want to keep enough picks so they would be able to pursue another big time player in 2024. With that said... here's what I came up with...

Filler, Topin, Grimes/Quickley
23 NYK, 29NYK
DAL 23
WAS 23
DET 23
Pick swaps 26, 28

This leaves NYK 4 picks to try to get another star in 24 - NYK 25, NYK 27, NYK 31, MKE 25 + swaps. (they might even include whoever they draft in 24 in the deal after the draft(like we got Kessler).

The awkward thing is... this is starting to become ridiculous for us with the number of picks in the 2023 draft. This would be 7 1st rounders if they all convert. But reality is - a lot of those won't (DAL converts, DET - probably not, WAS probably not)...

We still get one premier assett in an unprotected 29 NYK pick and we get two valuable swaps in case NYK collapses after Don's contract is up.

Well the hope it we can bundle those 23 picks and either move up, if we don't get high enough in the draft in the first place, or bundle them for an established player or a better spot in one of 24 or 25 draft maybe. Turn the assets into other/future assets.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, that's where I'm heading too... the Heat package truly is not that horrible if we are not getting any of the NYK good picks or players.

I don’t think Ainge would let it happen but it sounds like NY is doing the boiling the frog thing. Take RJ off the table and it’s based around premium draft capital which we should get 90% of it if true. Then Grimes is a pivot point too? Nah… Heat or Toronto can beat the package they are selling at that point. We have other ways to get the ****** protected picks… don’t get me wrong I will take em… but the Heat unprotected picks are more valuable than those… pick swaps are interesting too. Herro is a really good young player… I truly don’t get the hate with him. He closer to becoming Bradley Beal than JC.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Well the hope it we can bundle those 23 picks and either move up, if we don't get high enough in the draft in the first place, or bundle them for an established player or a better spot in one of 24 or 25 draft maybe. Turn the assets into other/future assets.

You will be able to kick some down the road. Most draft folks are saying it’s a great draft… like really good. We all know how that can turn out but perception is value… so sell off some of the later picks for unprotected picks from teams in draft night if they have a hard on for some prospect.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I don’t think Ainge would let it happen but it sounds like NY is doing the boiling the frog thing. Take RJ off the table and it’s based around premium draft capital which we should get 90% of it if true. Then Grimes is a pivot point too? Nah… Heat or Toronto can beat the package they are selling at that point. We have other ways to get the ****** protected picks… don’t get me wrong I will take em… but the Heat unprotected picks are more valuable than those… pick swaps are interesting too. Herro is a really good young player… I truly don’t get the hate with him. He closer to becoming Bradley Beal than JC.

Yes, see the light with Herro!!!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Pretty much where I’m at. The Knicks aren’t including Barrett and now they only want to include 2 1sts and Knicks fans were still complaining about that Andy trade when it was terrible lmao. At this point tell them you’re going to take the Miami offer and make them beat it. If they don’t and it comes out they had the chance to I think Leon Rose could be packing his bags (he’s trash regardless of what happens). The one saving grace for us is James Dolan is their owner and he will likely step in here pretty soon to make sure the deal gets done.

And if I’m Ainge and these guys go “find an offer for us to beat” and if my ****s with other stuff I’m trying to do… when I come back to you then you will have to beat it by more than a little or I’ll eff ya.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also the Washington first doesn’t really count as a first. That pick has a 50% shot at conveying imo.

 

[Elizah Huge]

At minimum to beat the Heat offer the Knicks need to be offering this:

- 3 unprotected 1sts
- 3 draft pick swaps
- 2 protected 1sts
- Toppin
- Quickley or Grimes

Even then I’m not sure if that’s enough. Is Toppin + Quickley or Grimes + a protected 1st worth the same as Herro? I don’t think so.

 

[stitches]

I don’t think Ainge would let it happen but it sounds like NY is doing the boiling the frog thing. Take RJ off the table and it’s based around premium draft capital which we should get 90% of it if true. Then Grimes is a pivot point too? Nah… Heat or Toronto can beat the package they are selling at that point. We have other ways to get the ****** protected picks… don’t get me wrong I will take em… but the Heat unprotected picks are more valuable than those… pick swaps are interesting too. Herro is a really good young player… I truly don’t get the hate with him. He closer to becoming Bradley Beal than JC.

At this current moment Herro is better than every single one of NYK's young players. Barrett included. Not sure he will be better assett on his new deal, but yah...