Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is an argument against tanking, not an argument against accumulating picks.

Two of those picks were acquired... not trying to argue but just making a note.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Being in an extremely asset rich situation like the Thunder sounds great, but I do wonder if there is a point where you have too many picks. What I mean is if you have more picks than you can possibly have roster spots for or develop, does that create a situation where your assets become less valuable as you lose leverage where teams know you have to start dealing them? It's just a hypothetical, and is certainly alleviated by having picks spread out across multiple years.

 

[MT Steve]

Two of those picks were acquired... not trying to argue but just making a note.

I mean, Nate's post was an argument against tanking, not against accumulating picks.

His point was picks in the top 10 don't guarantee a great player, which is obviously true. But having a ton of picks, period, greatly increases the odds of landing a great player.

 

[Nate505]

Okay now do the NBA in its entirety.

I don't care about the rest of the NBA, just the Jazz. It's the only team I really watch. I've also seen teams like the Kings have multiple high draft picks and not do anything with them, and teams like the 76ers who did this route and are still a 2nd round exit.

 

[jom2003]

I could give a **** about any of the players rumored to be in the deal, the only thing that matters it the picks.

The Heat are a very good franchise, the Knicks are a garbage franchise.

The NYK picks are the prize here. Miami's picks are not.

Don't think Miami is ever in real contention for DM. It's one of those Ainge's tricks to leverage against Knicks. "We will trade DM to Miami if you don't give in to our demand".

 

[whatthe]

I like this one. 8 picks and 4 swaps. You get Westbrook whose salary is expiring. A giant salary drop and can be used to pick up agents or picks next year.

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/parkerjrichey/status/1547704233608167424

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah, no kidding. Throwing out a bunch of scrubs is pretty much the same thing, and from an entertainment and competitive perspective (which believe it or not, is one reason I actually like watching basketball) it's horrible.

The Jazz aren't trying to get scrubs. They are trying to get the best young players they can get along with picks.

 

[Nate505]

The Jazz aren't trying to get scrubs. They are trying to get the best young players they can get along with picks.

I hope they are, and if they do it'll make them worth watching. Like even if the Jazz end up sucking next year, which seems likely, they'll be worth watching if there's a player or two that gives some hope for the next season and to watch their progress.

 

[cowhide]

I like the Toppin, Quickley, Grimes with the picks. IF NY is complaining about too many picks than give them one of the 2023 picks we don't need 4 picks next year. Besides the ones I am excited about are the later picks when NY will suck by then. Just get it down 4 picks 2 swaps and the three guys. That would be huge. Then find places for all the other older guys. Jazz future will look bright.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Being in an extremely asset rich situation like the Thunder sounds great, but I do wonder if there is a point where you have too many picks. What I mean is if you have more picks than you can possibly have roster spots for or develop, does that create a situation where your assets become less valuable as you lose leverage where teams know you have to start dealing them? It's just a hypothetical, and is certainly alleviated by having picks spread out across multiple years.

For sure. But that is why we should focus on the quality of the picks (unprotected being higher quality) over quantity. Just like OKC did this year though... you can mash a few picks together to get a lotto pick in some years if there is someone you like. Its also quite easy to find a team that will give you a first next year for a first this year.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

You have one to share?

Nothing specific. Just heard Miami are still happening and it involves at least one other team. Sounds like a lot is up in the air. That's about all the info I received, and probably won't get more any time soon. Gut feeling/speculation is the NY trade may still happen, but with Miami potentially figuring out how to get a 3rd team involved, the Jazz may go that route, or use it as leverage between NY and Miami.

Hopefully whatever 3rd team comes into play ends up getting us better picks than what Miami has. Future Miami picks may not be worth a lot. History tells us NY picks probably will.

 

[jom2003]

The love affair with picks is confusing given how rarely draft picks play out as planned. Danny was extremely luck in Boston that he ended up in the front part of the lotto and then fortunate that he got players that panned out. I want young talent with the picks so at least we know we have something. I have no interest in being the OKC Thunder.

Drafting player is more than just luck though. Having good eyes for talent definitely gives you the edge over GMs who are bad at scouting and I see Ainge as one of the best in the business. I mean he wasn't just "lucky" to draft Tatum. He wanted Tatum when everyone said he should have drafted Fultz.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Nothing specific. Just heard Miami are still happening and it involves at least one other team. Sounds like a lot is up in the air. That's about all the info I received, and probably won't get more any time soon. Gut feeling/speculation is the NY trade may still happen, but with Miami potentially figuring out how to get a 3rd team involved, the Jazz may go that route, or use it as leverage between NY and Miami.

Hopefully whatever 3rd team comes into play ends up getting us better picks than what Miami has. Future Miami picks may not be worth a lot. History tells us NY picks probably will.

What do you know exactly what myself and HH have been discussing.

Thank you for the information.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

For sure. But that is why we should focus on the quality of the picks (unprotected being higher quality) over quantity. Just like OKC did this year though... you can mash a few picks together to get a lotto pick in some years if there is someone you like. Its also quite easy to find a team that will give you a first next year for a first this year.

It will be interesting to see how OKC pivots in the next couple of years. They are certainly in position to both acquire win now pieces while keeping their development program going. Yeah, probably shouldn't worry too much about too many picks.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't care about the rest of the NBA, just the Jazz. It's the only team I really watch. I've also seen teams like the Kings have multiple high draft picks and not do anything with them, and teams like the 76ers who did this route and are still a 2nd round exit.

you still have to be competent but there is a world where Philly takes Tatum instead of Fultz and Kings take Luka instead of Bagley. Accumulating a lot of picks and tanking stacks the deck to help when you miss on a few picks or make bad deals. NBA titles are won with top talent and top talent is largely found at the top of the draft (not exclusively) for us we have to build through the draft and trades so getting as many picks as possible is critical.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It will be interesting to see how OKC pivots in the next couple of years. They are certainly in position to both acquire win now pieces while keeping their development program going. Yeah, probably shouldn't worry too much about too many picks.

Our picks would also have more value than OKC's. Most of the picks they got are protected... getting Minny and NYK picks unprotected dramatically improves the value of the picks.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Accumulating picks like this also alleviates pressure for the giant long term tank. If we get a young player that immediately puts us in the playoffs we don't have to worry as much about not having our own high picks to surround that guy.

 

[Nate505]

you still have to be competent but there is a world where Philly takes Tatum instead of Fultz and Kings take Luka instead of Bagley. Accumulating a lot of picks and tanking stacks the deck to help when you miss on a few picks or make bad deals. NBA titles are won with top talent and top talent is largely found at the top of the draft (not exclusively) for us we have to build through the draft and trades so getting as many picks as possible is critical.

True. Perhaps I should clarify my thoughts here. I have no issues with them accumulating as many picks as possible, but I don't want it at the expense of them getting some talent with some known upside. For the very least that I want a reason to watch this team next season. If the Mitchell trade is like the Gobert trade, with a lot of picks and a Vanderbilt type player....yay, great for the tank and all but I have no interest in watching this team. I'll definitely be looking forward to next June, but I'll have about 10 months to do something else with my life. And this is coming from someone who has watched damn near 82 regular season Jazz games a year for the past 20 years. I enjoy watching the Jazz, and I don't want to give that up, but ultimately the product has to be at least interesting in one way or the other to watch.

It's why I'm hoping at the very least a Toppin type player is included in the deal. I can make myself believe that he will be a good player down the road, even if it's not the reality.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

There won't be any reports on it, but Sam Presti will be despondent after this trade goes down. His world will be rocked.

Then his next move for OKC will reek of desperation.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

True. Perhaps I should clarify my thoughts here. I have no issues with them accumulating as many picks as possible, but I don't want it at the expense of them getting some talent with some known upside. For the very least that I want a reason to watch this team next season. If the Mitchell trade is like the Gobert trade, with a lot of picks and a Vanderbilt type player....yay, great for the tank and all but I have no interest in watching this team. I'll definitely be looking forward to next June, but I'll have about 10 months to do something else with my life. And this is coming from someone who has watched damn near 82 regular season Jazz games a year for the past 20 years.

Yeah I think Toppin and IQ would make the team at least interesting. Can't get excited about Bolmaro, Kessler, Beasley, Vando... but sometimes a young guy surprises and is fun.