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Jazz still not watching film together

Sloan is such a great coach....

His we do things all as a team or we don't do them line is crap. They don't watch film as a team?
Is this more of the "I expect them to be prepared on their own" line of thinking. They are all grown men.

It sounds like a cop out for Sloan to not do his job. He doesn't talk to players....because they should already know stuff is crap.

Ok end /rant
 
Vinyl: How do you really feel about Sloan. You can tell us. Were your friends.

I think Sloan is a good coach. Not a great coach. He has done wonders for this franchise and the team. He's been the face of the coaching staff for a very long time and I respect him highly. That said, he has certain aspects that I completely deplore.
 
Sometimes it's amusing to just sit back and see what some of you people think you know. Whether Sloan is right or wrong on this issue isn't really relevant. What's relevant to me is the kind of completely asinine comments on this thread - "that's Coaching 101!," "he's not doing his job," etc, etc. - as if Sloan is some random clueless retard that's somehow unaware of the possibilities of film study, or has decided to reject a tactic that is somehow guaranteed to improve the team. Why do we know it's guaranteed to help the team? Why, because a few idiots on a message board INSIST that it's "coaching fundamentals" and that Sloan is "not doing his job" if he doesn't do it. As if any of them knows the first thing about coaching. ("By jove, if we'd been STUDYING FILM AS A TEAM last year, we would have won 73 games instead of a measly 53!") I certainly don't think it's out of bounds for fans to criticize their coaches, and sometimes they/you/we are going to be right. But the level of self-important delusion in this thread is staggering. Maybe Sloan has good reasons for not having team sessions, maybe he doesn't, and maybe he's just being too stubbornly set in his ways - I don't know. But just because something is conventional wisdom doesn't mean it's the only way to get things done. Every coach has their own idiosyncracies and different ways they prepare and train and practice and judge and game-plan and adjust. Yet somehow you all have this cut-and-dried concept of what Jerry is "supposed" to do, as if it's really that elementary?
 
...if Sloan doesn't want the team watching film together, it must be for a good reason. I suspect he wants them to lose.
 
As the lone team Captain now, Deron should organize film sessions with his teammates if he likes the idea. What/who is stopping him from doing this?? Maybe Boozer was against doing this before?
As Captain Picard would say, "MAKE IT SO"...

Well then make him player /coach and get rid of Sloan. It is not the captain's job to be the coach. His job is to make sure that his teammates do what the coach says and if there are issues then the captain (DW) talks with the coach.
 
Yea too bad were not as smart as you anonymous832.

I agree with this. It is too bad some of you are not as smart as anonymousB32. I liked this part in particular. "The level of self-important delusion in this thread is staggering".
 
I agree with this. It is too bad some of you are not as smart as anonymousB32. I liked this part in particular. "The level of self-important delusion in this thread is staggering".

Yes, I knew someone was going to use that particular quote to either distort the purpose of my post or ignore what I actually said - or both. So bravo, you're the one. I find it interesting that nobody has yet actually taken issue with any specific point I made. Either way, what I wrote was neither self-important nor delusional - I was simply claiming that I DON'T have the answers, while a dozen or so people on this thread apparently seem to think the answers are self-evident. They don't have the answers, either - and while there's nothing wrong with criticizing or questioning a coach/team/player, the fact that people were acting like Sloan was some moron who didn't understand - as, of course, THEY did, in their infinite coaching wisdom - an apparently basic fundamental principle of coaching was laughable to say the least.

Sloan told the Trib today that he believes players watching film on their own is a better teaching method than watching film as a team. That's what he's found in his experience, at least. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, maybe other coaches have found otherwise in their experience. I couldn't possibly say which method is more effective - nor could any of the rest of you.

That was my point.
 
What you probably don't realize is that if this thread was started with "Sloan and team watch film together" then there would have been an outpouring of disgust that Sloan is wasting the team's practice time going over film with the players. There is never a right answer, even when we win. This is a board of pessimistic ********, which is what makes it so much fun to read. :)
 
Sloan told the Trib today that he believes players watching film on their own is a better teaching method than watching film as a team. That's what he's found in his experience, at least.
Under that same logic, it's better to graduate from college on independent study rather than interacting with a teacher.

This is why, anonymous, that some posters on this board differ with some of the tactics that Sloan uses. Even if not watching game film was adequate for when the team already knew the offense, it's probably appropriate right now with at least a couple of young players (Hayward, Evans) and a half-dozen new ones. And what is disappointing is that Sloan isn't giving any hints that he would consider possibly giving it a try. Back to the fatal flaw of lack of adjusting to the situation, both in games and out.

P.S. Experience or authority is definitely not an assurance of correctness; just ask Richard Nixon.
(He was a U.S. president, btw.)
 
Under that same logic, it's better to graduate from college on independent study rather than interacting with a teacher.

Using surgical skill to produce a comment that is specific, clear, and creative, InGameStrategy reveals teh brilliant insight that never seeing a professor at all is the approximate equivalent of spending hours a day with a coach focused on your improvment, whcih coach prefers one technique over another. Bravo!

... it's probably appropriate right now

That's why the jazz had out game "film" after every game: so the players can watch it. The only difference is whether it is the best use of practice time.
 
Sometimes it's amusing to just sit back and see what some of you people think you know. Whether Sloan is right or wrong on this issue isn't really relevant. What's relevant to me is the kind of completely asinine comments on this thread - "that's Coaching 101!," "he's not doing his job," etc, etc. - as if Sloan is some random clueless retard that's somehow unaware of the possibilities of film study, or has decided to reject a tactic that is somehow guaranteed to improve the team. Why do we know it's guaranteed to help the team? Why, because a few idiots on a message board INSIST that it's "coaching fundamentals" and that Sloan is "not doing his job" if he doesn't do it. As if any of them knows the first thing about coaching. ("By jove, if we'd been STUDYING FILM AS A TEAM last year, we would have won 73 games instead of a measly 53!") I certainly don't think it's out of bounds for fans to criticize their coaches, and sometimes they/you/we are going to be right. But the level of self-important delusion in this thread is staggering. Maybe Sloan has good reasons for not having team sessions, maybe he doesn't, and maybe he's just being too stubbornly set in his ways - I don't know. But just because something is conventional wisdom doesn't mean it's the only way to get things done. Every coach has their own idiosyncracies and different ways they prepare and train and practice and judge and game-plan and adjust. Yet somehow you all have this cut-and-dried concept of what Jerry is "supposed" to do, as if it's really that elementary?
Welcome to JazzFanz.
 
Using surgical skill to produce a comment that is specific, clear, and creative, InGameStrategy reveals teh brilliant insight that never seeing a professor at all is the approximate equivalent of spending hours a day with a coach focused on your improvment, whcih coach prefers one technique over another. Bravo!

That's why the jazz had out game "film" after every game: so the players can watch it. The only difference is whether it is the best use of practice time.
According to your blog, you are a teacher, so I'd be surprised that you'd argue that independent study in whatever form is better assistance by a teacher, with or without independent study. I will grant you that my example took it to an extreme, implying little to no teacher involvement in any form.

There might be NBA limits to how much time coaches can spend with players practicing or training. My argument is that whatever time constraint there is, it might be good--at least temporarily--to reallocate some of that time toward watching film. Also, I would be surprised if impromptu huddles of 5 or 10 minutes watching excerpts of game film--even from a laptop--would count against any such rumored limit on practice time, which would not take away from practice time at all. I invite anyone who knows about NBA limits on practice (or whether the Jazz tests those limits) to share. If there is such a limit, I doubt that those limits were tested on Thursday, given that it was on the day of a second game of a back-to-back, giving plenty of time to incorporate watching game film as a team because the team probably didn't go through a full practice.

In other words, it's feasible for a coach to lead a film discussion. Let one or more of the assistant coaches do it, Jerry, if you prefer. Just don't put it all on the players. Most of them didn't even graduate from college, so they are not necessarily students of anything.
 
I think Sloan is a good coach. Not a great coach. He has done wonders for this franchise and the team. He's been the face of the coaching staff for a very long time and I respect him highly. That said, he has certain aspects that I completely deplore.

I think he's great in some ways, like leading by example, telling the truth to his players/staff/media, being dependable, getting the most out of practices, and not wavering when his manhood is tested. :)

I think he's good, not great, in most of the other areas except knowing when to call timeout and substitutions. I've noticed there's many of us that feel that way. I don't like how he gets that stubborn edge to him and thinks to himself "I'm not gonna bail these guys out." I understand his reasoning but I think it's not the way to approach basketball.

Basketball is a game of strategy, not just effort. Phil Jackson is a master strategist. It's no wonder his teams always do well. For example, when the opposing team scores 2-3 baskets in a row, PJ automatically calls a timeout. Timeouts are a great tool for trying something different. If you see your team doing one thing, and the opposing team is crushing it, then, instead of just yelling from the sidelines, call timeout. Have them focus on something different. The players are your pieces to guide and direct, not so much to yell at.

Maybe we should send Sloan a letter? ;)
 
Under that same logic, it's better to graduate from college on independent study rather than interacting with a teacher.

That's so NOT a relevant parallel, it almost seems like you're parodying bad analogies.

But as ridiculous as your example is, I'll bite anyway: A better analogy would be teaching style. I've had great teachers who ran intensive, interactive class discussions, and I've had terrible teachers who did the same. I've had terrible teachers who just stood up there and lectured the whole time, and I've had great teachers who did the same. I've had teachers who have required tons of reading and writing, and other teachers - in similar classes - who have required less reading and less writing, but spent more time on each assignment. There are benefits to both. I've had great teachers who used a lot of visual aides and great teachers who didn't. There is not necessarily one right answer. Teachers teach differently; coaches coach differently - and that applies at every level of their teaching/coaching.

This is why, anonymous, that some posters on this board differ with some of the tactics that Sloan uses. Even if not watching game film was adequate for when the team already knew the offense, it's probably appropriate right now with at least a couple of young players (Hayward, Evans) and a half-dozen new ones.

Disagreeing with tactics is fine. Not knowing anything about something and then disagreeing with those tactics is....well, it's just irrelevant. Not once on this board has anyone come up with any kind of legitimate analysis/argument about the benefits of individual film study vs. the benefits of team film study. Common sense says there are benefits to both, and apparently Sloan in general prefers the former. He likes the results he's gotten, I guess. (Considering that coaches across the league consider his staff as one of the best - if not the best - at pure teaching, I would have to assume his behind-the-scenes tactics have, in fact, worked quite well. But, as I've said, I don't really have any expertise in that area, so for all I know Sloan and Co. may legitimately be missing out on something here.)

But no, instead of any concrete arguments - nor, more importantly, any acknowledgment that preparation tactics (what works, what doesn't, and why, and how) are a subject of which we have a limited understanding - we get stuff like, "God, what an idiot! EVERYONE knows you have to study film as a team! Gaaah!" No other argument beyond that, because these posters don't really know what they're talking about - but "team film study" sounds good to them, or it makes sense to them (and hey, it kinda makes sense to me, too!), and so they assume that that's the way everyone has to do it, and anyone who doesn't is simply failing.

That is the extent of the logic on display here.

And to tell you the truth, I would bet that the majority of the most successful coaches in the major sports are fairly unconventional - they do certain things that no one else is doing, or don't do things that everyone else is doing, etc. Again, I'm not saying not watching film as a team is necessarily a good unconventional tactic. I'm only saying I don't really know, and that neither do people on this forum, and that criticism of something like that HAS to be tempered by some nuanced thinking and more than a little humility, or it's worthless.

And what is disappointing is that Sloan isn't giving any hints that he would consider possibly giving it a try.

Oh, you mean except for the part where this week he said he WOULD consider it, and that a team film session was planned for Friday? Except for that, you mean?

Back to the fatal flaw of lack of adjusting to the situation, both in games and out.

P.S. Experience or authority is definitely not an assurance of correctness; just ask Richard Nixon.
(He was a U.S. president, btw.)

This floored me, I've gotta admit. An arbitrary Richard Nixon reference gratuitously thrown in. I love it. With that line, this officially became my favorite post of the week. I don't even know you and I can already tell that your friends secretly hate you. A Nixon reference? Really? Who does that?

Anyway, I didn't say that experience in and of itself equates correctness, and I made the point that I have no problem with fans - especially knowledgeable fans, and there are plenty of knowledgeable Jazz fans - criticizing a coach or player or anything, and that sometimes they're absolutely right. What I have a problem with is the absurdly simplistic way people were reacting to something that they really don't understand at all - behind-the-scenes preparation is one of the things we know about LEAST, and yet people were acting as if it was common knowledge that This Is The Way You Do It. I'm sure if you go to the coaches around the league, you'll find plenty of differentiation in a lot of different areas - for instance, there have been coaches (i.e. Riley) who have long, brutal, intense practices on a regular basis. And there are those who prefer to run lighter practices. There are arguments and counter-arguments for both. But both styles have been successful. That's just one example, but I'm sure there are plenty of others.

And anyway, I never said that I thought Sloan was correct - I said it's in an area so obscured to those of us who are merely fans, that having an authoritative view of what Sloan "should" do about film study in order to correctly do his job is delusional at best, if not plain idiotic.
 
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