John Collins = Marvin Williams

[Saint Cy of JFC]

John plays at a position where his replacements both give us something we desperately need. KO brings shooting and ball movement... Kessler brings elite rim protection. Both skills are more valuable to us because of other issues we have on the roster but are just more valuable in general than what John brings. For John to play 30 plus minutes on a good team the team will need a great playmaker in the backcourt or on the wing and a 5 that shoots and protects the rim. Otherwise he is best as a third big. We have a great third big type in KO. The acquisition never made sense and I think John has played as well as a reasonable person could expect.

I actually think Collins is a better shooter than Olynyk. Given KO's reluctant shooting nature and Collins proficiency as a corner threat. Even through his shooting slump, you can tell that teams make more of an effort to close to JC in the corner than they did the first half of the season.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I actually think Collins is a better shooter than Olynyk. Given KO's reluctant shooting nature and Collins proficiency as a corner threat. Even through his shooting slump, you can tell that teams make more of an effort to close to JC in the corner than they did the first half of the season.

He's not... KO just knows he can either shoot or pump fake and find a shot or get a good shot for a teammate. You close harder to a guy that won't hurt you if they put the ball on the floor.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I actually think Collins is a better shooter than Olynyk.

Hell no.

Olynyk isn't a high volume guy but he's shooting over 42% from the perimeter and has an insane TS% (68.3)

In fact, I think Olynyk may be a more naturally talented shooter than Lauri. Lauri can be an absolute 3p robot when he's on, but he's strictly catch & shoot from the perimeter and isn't that great at adapting his jump shot to different situations and locations... or using it off the dribble. Kelly is much more creative and has a softer touch IMO.

 

[KqWIN]

I don’t see the comp to Marvin at all either.

Anyways….I don’t think John has really played to expectation. Some of that seems to be his level dropping off (or still figuring things out), some of that is how he’s being deployed.

It was definitely a miss for me….but I think that if the coach had no plans to use him as a roll man (even without playing with a big), we should not have considered it.

 

[HermanG]

I am sure I said that or something similar. I understand the messaging but I don't think this is something that will click in per se... I just think he doesn't have the skills to do what we need him to... they may view it as slow to understand or whatevs but I think its just kinda who he is. I also think stuff that gets communicated and reported isn't like raw unfiltered truth. I don't necessarily have a problem with how they positioned it I just think its funny that its surprising or that people think its a mystery.

He's not a good passer or dribbler.. he's not some great defender that fills in the gaps. He's not a guy with some hidden talents or things that will unlock. He's good but he should make 12-13M a year not 25-28M a year. If he made that much he could come off the bench as a third big and be good in that role. It was fairly obvious to me from watching him in Atlanta and the only thing I thought that could tick up that would improve his value was his shooting... which has improved here but he's mostly just deadly from the corners and bad above the break... so even that is a bit limited.

At this point you live with it and manage it. Hardy is doing well imo but after the deadline you need to change the ratio of minutes for him and Kessler. Hope you can move him if someone gets desperate or dumb... after the deadline do what is best for the team.

Honestly, I just think he lacks IQ. And I'm sort of embarrassed about not seeing it earlier, as I endorsed for him pre trade DL last year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Keep him in the starting lineup... do what you need to to "showcase" before the deadline. After that manage minutes as you see fit for the total benefit of the team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He's not... KO just knows he can either shoot or pump fake and find a shot or get a good shot for a teammate. You close harder to a guy that won't hurt you if they put the ball on the floor.

He barely takes 4 per 48 minutes. Just not enough volume. KO just knows what ***** he can and can't make and only takes the ones he feels confident in.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Honestly, I just think he lacks IQ. And I'm sort of embarrassed about not seeing it earlier, as I endorsed for him pre trade DL last year.

And I get why some liked it... viewed it as buying low but if you are going to buy low on an expensive project then it has to fit. I think me and @Saint Cy of JFC were both on the line of thinking KO was better than JC flat out as a player last year. Its why i have oscillated on trying to flip this project for another project like LaVine. Now I think Collin is giving us a lot of what we'd want from Zach so that is something I wouldn't want to do either.

John does seem like a good guy so hopefully if we decide Walker needs 30 minutes a night and he needs to come off the bench he will buy in. DA was kinda feeling himself after last season and missed the mark on this one.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He barely takes 4 per 48 minutes. Just not enough volume. KO just knows what ***** he can and can't make and only takes the ones he feels confident in.

This year he is taking less... in other years he's taken more. He's just a more complete player than John and can do more. He takes 4 per 36 over his two seasons in Utah and shoots 40%... can shoot above the break or from the corner as well. He isn't reluctant to shoot the 3 imo... he just knows that he can do more than just shoot a three.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also watch how strongly teams contest Collins on above the break threes. They ain't scared.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This year he is taking less... in other years he's taken more. He's just a more complete player than John and can do more. He takes 4 per 36 over his two seasons in Utah and shoots 40%... can shoot above the break or from the corner as well. He isn't reluctant to shoot the 3 imo... he just knows that he can do more than just shoot a three.

Hard eyeroll on the "not reluctant" part. It's an issue for KO. You can tell when he does force a 3 because he will somewhat regularly hard brick 3s when he feels he has to shoot.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also watch how strongly teams contest Collins on above the break threes. They ain't scared.

Yeah, he's a one dimensional shooter, but he's good at that dimension and it's very important for spacing.