Jon Stewart on white privilege (cc: unnamed posters... etc.)

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Shame and guilt are negative and destructive. Unfortunately, when some activists are calling for awareness, empathy, and action, some people here these calls as calls to shame and guilt. I don't feel guilty for being white, I try to use my whiteness to help others that are not white, when that help doesn't interfere with people helping themselves.

Here's the problem I see with the term, if people want to call it a problem. I don't see it as counterproductive the same as others might. You aren't going to make a racist out of the Moes or Logs or Coltons or anyone else on here who doesn't care for the term by using it. We aren't going to annoy them into caring less about racial inequality or inequity by using a term they feel missed the mark. It just isn't counterproductive in that sense.

Where it falls short IMO is the audience it's meant for. Who are these people? Do they even exist in a group large enough to matter? White people by and large know racism exists and the disadvantages whole classes of people face. We aren't living under rocks. I've seen people on here for years say as much - "I'm not racist, I realize the challenges I don't have to face daily, but my issue is..." - over and over and over, and it seems to fall onto deaf ears. If they are representative of the average white America then there is no audience captured by the term to aim it toward.

I believe just about everyone on here espouses the view you wrote above. I think "some people here [sic] these calls as calls to shame and guilt." is true but I don't think annoyance is changing anyone's attitude, just discomfort for no necessary reason or purpose.

 

[One Brow]

I believe just about everyone on here espouses the view you wrote above. I think "some people here [sic] these calls as calls to shame and guilt." is true but I don't think annoyance is changing anyone's attitude, just discomfort for no necessary reason or purpose.

You can cause discomfort without causing shame or guilt. Discomfort is important. Kaepernick brought attention back to a problem by making the audience uncomfortable.

Shame and guilt are emotions we tend to look inwardly with. Discomfort creates an outward reaction. Comfort creates no reaction at all, and leads to stasis.

 

[Alfalfa]

You can cause discomfort without causing shame or guilt. Discomfort is important. Kaepernick brought attention back to a problem by making the audience uncomfortable.

Shame and guilt are emotions we tend to look inwardly with. Discomfort creates an outward reaction. Comfort creates no reaction at all, and leads to stasis.

Shame and guilt are powerful motivators. Ever heard of Christianity or Islam? Major civilizations have been built on shame and guilt. They can be very productive.

 

[LogGrad98]

generally, terms and phrases like "coded language" and "trigger words" set my hair on fire but I do think that for some people, using the term "privilege" is sort of a trigger that gets them thinking in a way that is counterproductive to dialogue of sharing ideas and points of view

I get that it is good to make people feel "guilty" but those feelings of guilt are not useful if they shut down the discussion - - guilt that motivates further discussion is good, guilt that shuts it down is not. Unfortunately you can't really tell ahead of time which kind of guilt the person hearing/reading the statements about white privilege is going to feel - - and not everyone (always) has the time or patience to engage in a prolonged discussion to reach a consensus on its meaning or how it's used.

So trigger word is your trigger word?

 

[One Brow]

Shame and guilt are powerful motivators. Ever heard of Christianity or Islam? Major civilizations have been built on shame and guilt. They can be very productive.

More specifically, major religions have been built on relieving people of the burdens of shame and guilt. Being aware of white privilege offers no such relief.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

You can cause discomfort without causing shame or guilt. Discomfort is important. Kaepernick brought attention back to a problem by making the audience uncomfortable.

Shame and guilt are emotions we tend to look inwardly with. Discomfort creates an outward reaction. Comfort creates no reaction at all, and leads to stasis.

Absolutely, but I think you know that's not a good example of the discomfort and annoyance I was talking about with the rest of my post. To be more specific, telling people over and over who are aware that they are unaware, and that they need to do something about what they are unaware of even though 1) they are, and 2) they can't really, is unnecessarily annoying. 3) I don't know who these mythical people are who are clueless to the situation. We didn't need Kaepernick to understand their is an ongoing problem.

And I think it goes without saying that people being annoyed at the misuse or abuse of a term is much, much less important than a societal injustice. That doesn't make it any less annoying.

 

[One Brow]

3) I don't know who these mythical people are who are clueless to the situation. We didn't need Kaepernick to understand their is an ongoing problem.

Perhaps many of the posters in here don't, but if kneeling during the national anthem is creating apoplexy, then I find it unlikely the apoplectic understand there is an ongoing problem.

 

[TroutBum]

I’ve enjoyed being white my whole life. I wish I could jump higher, run faster, and be better at math, but at least my dong is tiny.

 

[One Brow]

I’ve enjoyed being white my whole life. I wish I could jump higher, run faster, and be better at math, but at least my dong is tiny.

I have also wished I could jump higher and run faster.

 

[Archie Moses]

Guilt and shame are not counterproductive. And people, white and otherwise, should be ashamed that their country provides lesser opportunities to non-whites.

I grew up in a religion that was based around guilt and shame. While it didn't mess me up per say, it's amazing how much it's ****ed up my friends.

Guilt and shame are not counterproductive when one recognizes their own wrong doing. However, when it's others pushing guilt and shame, then, hell yeah, it's counter productive.

I see how a guy like you wouldn't get this though.

 

[Archie Moses]

I’ve enjoyed being white my whole life. I wish I could jump higher, run faster, and be better at math, but at least my dong is tiny.

If only you posted today like you used to 10 years ago. It would be a riot. Like literally.

 

[Archie Moses]

Shame and guilt are powerful motivators. Ever heard of Christianity or Islam? Major civilizations have been built on shame and guilt. They can be very productive.

It's productive when those with power use it as motivation for the less powerful and educated. It's also abused.

Thank you internet.

Again, I'm not surprised a guy like you doesn't get this.