Jon Stewart on white privilege (cc: unnamed posters... etc.)

[One Brow]

By and large, men and women inherently are interested in different things. Socialization is not what is driving women to want to work as nurses, teachers, and social workers........biology is.

Pure, unadulterated nonsense, 200 proof. There is no biological mechanism that triggers nursing/teaching/social work. In fact, for over a century, most of the teachers in the US were men, and that's been true for most of Western European history. Nursing and social work are relatively recent professions.

Read Jordan Peterson on this topic, who is a clinical psychologist that has done a lot of work researching the biological differences between men and women.

This would be the same Jordan Peterson who thinks that the best models for examining human social hierarchies are not other apes (like chimpanzees or bonobos), but lobsters? The same Peterson who thinks postmodern Neo-Marxism could be a thing? Peterson is a light-weight pseudo-intellectual who leveraged his decision to be rude into making a lot of money telling people what they wanted to hear.

I have a young daughter, and no matter how much I try and encourage her to consider technology or finance as a profession, she still tells me she want to be a veterinarian because she likes taking care of animals. She was not socialized into this preference.

Veterinarians are still STEM professionals (my daughter also has this goal). You might as well say being a physician is not STEM.

Wow, men are so lucky to be socialized into physical, dangerous, death inducing, high expectation, suicidal professions. If that's considered privilege I think I'll take a pass on it.

Being able to take that pass is a part of the privilege.

I'm saying that it's not an actual privilege. When I walked into a barber shop catered to black men, as a teenager, and was told that they were sorry but they don't know how to cut white hair, it didn't bother me. It still doesn't today. I just found another place to get my hair cut.

The ability to easily find such places is a privilege.

 

[One Brow]

Reading him or my crazy views?

I don't think your views (nor you) are crazy. I get they represent your best effort to make sense of the world. However, they are rooted in social conventions and mores passed down to you that are better removed from society.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Pure, unadulterated nonsense, 200 proof. There is no biological mechanism that triggers nursing/teaching/social work. In fact, for over a century, most of the teachers in the US were men, and that's been true for most of Western European history. Nursing and social work are relatively recent professions.

Countless studies show that men and women's brains are different in a variety of ways. There is discussion to be had regarding the extent that culture vs biology dictate professional choices, but pretending that biology plays no role is an absolute denial of reality.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

Veterinarians are still STEM professionals (my daughter also has this goal). You might as well say being a physician is not STEM.

I've never spoken to someone that takes so many things out of context. I never suggested that Veterinarians are not STEM professionals. My 10 year old daughter is not interested in being a veterinarian because of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. She likes to play with and take care of animals.

Being able to take that pass is a part of the privilege.

Except that, by and large, men are not the ones passing on these dangerous professions, women are! Does that not make them the privileged ones?

The ability to easily find such places is a privilege.

Again, this all depends on where you live. When I visit Chinatown in San Francisco, I don't expect to be able to find the exact same products I find close to home. In parts of the country with high populations of black people, their are most certainly an abundance of stores that cater to their needs.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I don't think your views (nor you) are crazy. I get they represent your best effort to make sense of the world. However, they are rooted in social conventions and mores passed down to you that are better removed from society.

I can accept your viewpoint. To me, I don't believe anyone's views are best removed from society. It used to be that Liberals believed in a diversity of ideas, which is no longer the case from my viewpoint. In my opinion, widespread ideas blaming societies problems only on certain groups of people keeps others from taking personal, individual responsibility, and recognizing their potential.

 

[One Brow]

Countless studies show that men and women's brains are different in a variety of ways. There is discussion to be had regarding the extent that culture vs biology dictate professional choices, but pretending that biology plays no role is an absolute denial of reality.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

Are you aware of the concepts of means and standard deviations? When I point out that these studies are finding differences in means whose separation is less that a standard deviation in either population, does that mean anything to you?

I've never spoken to someone that takes so many things out of context. I never suggested that Veterinarians are not STEM professionals. My 10 year old daughter is not interested in being a veterinarian because of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. She likes to play with and take care of animals.

Yet, she's not talking about being a dog groomer, who would also be someone who takes care of animals. She's aiming for what would have been a more male-oriented role 50 years ago.

Except that, by and large, men are not the ones passing on these dangerous professions, women are! Does that not make them the privileged ones?

Women are privileged by being excluded from, or hounded out of, dangerous jobs? That's an odd point of view.

Again, this all depends on where you live. When I visit Chinatown in San Francisco, I don't expect to be able to find the exact same products I find close to home. In parts of the country with high populations of black people, their are most certainly an abundance of stores that cater to their needs.

The privilege is acceptable as long as it is market based, basically?

 

[One Brow]

I can accept your viewpoint. To me, I don't believe anyone's views are best removed from society. It used to be that Liberals believed in a diversity of ideas, which is no longer the case from my viewpoint.

To me, tolerating racism, sexism, etc. is not worth the cost just so I can say society has diverse ideas on whether black people, women etc. are fully enabled people in society. Perhaps they are for you.

In my opinion, widespread ideas blaming societies problems only on certain groups of people keeps others from taking personal, individual responsibility, and recognizing their potential.

Do you really have trouble understanding the difference between 'only certain people benefit' and 'blaming certain people', or are you just repeating rhetoric without thinking about it?

 

[moevillini]

getting back to the use of the term "privilege" because I honestly think that one specific word turns some people away from the concept because to them it connotes great wealth, and they can't see it any other way...

I would much prefer if the term had been "white advantage" - It is something that would mean essentially the same thing without the more specific connotation that a word like "privilege" has for some folks

just my humble thought

 

[LogGrad98]

getting back to the use of the term "privilege" because I honestly think that one specific word turns some people away from the concept because to them it connotes great wealth, and they can't see it any other way...

I would much prefer if the term had been "white advantage" - It is something that would mean essentially the same thing without the more specific connotation that a word like "privilege" has for some folks

just my humble thought

This makes a lot of sense. Most often the word privilege is used in a context akin to "the privileged few" and connotes the silver spoon image of wealth moreso than an often nebulous yet real advantage regardless of socioeconomic strata.

 

[One Brow]

getting back to the use of the term "privilege" because I honestly think that one specific word turns some people away from the concept because to them it connotes great wealth, and they can't see it any other way...

I would much prefer if the term had been "white advantage" - It is something that would mean essentially the same thing without the more specific connotation that a word like "privilege" has for some folks

just my humble thought

Perhaps. I think that those who dislike the idea would rail against it, regardless of term.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

getting back to the use of the term "privilege" because I honestly think that one specific word turns some people away from the concept because to them it connotes great wealth, and they can't see it any other way...

I would much prefer if the term had been "white advantage" - It is something that would mean essentially the same thing without the more specific connotation that a word like "privilege" has for some folks

just my humble thought

I definitely like the term "advantage" as opposed to "privilege". What about if the term was switched around to "minority disadvantage?" Does it lose the meaning or purpose of the term? (genuine question)

My preference would be that identifiable disadvantages for a particular group are addressed individually. For instance, reports indicating that black men are frequently sentenced to longer jail sentences (for similar crimes) is appalling. This is a specific disadvantage that I would imagine virtually everyone would be in favor of correcting.

 

[Gameface]

I definitely like the term "advantage" as opposed to "privilege". What about if the term was switched around to "minority disadvantage?" Does it lose the meaning or purpose of the term? (genuine question)

My preference would be that identifiable disadvantages for a particular group are addressed individually. For instance, reports indicating that black men are frequently sentenced to longer jail sentences (for similar crimes) is appalling. This is a specific disadvantage that I would imagine virtually everyone would be in favor of correcting.

Being specific about what "privilege" means would be helpful. With or without the label.

As you mention, black people being sentenced to longer prison terms for the same exact charge, the only difference being race. Yes, I would hope that we would all want to correct that obvious injustice.

I think the term "privilege" obscures more than it illuminates at this point. It might be a technically accurate term describing a real and very significant phenomenon, but it isn't the most expedient way to get us from where we are to the next step in where we hope to be.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I think the term "privilege" obscures more than it illuminates at this point. It might be a technically accurate term describing a real and very significant phenomenon, but it isn't the most expedient way to get us from where we are to the next step in where we hope to be.

Well said.