Kanter and Burke have got to go

[The Fresh Prince]

Damn. This was Burkes rookie season and we already want to cash out and say "We didn't see many flashes of greatness in him." It was his rookie season! Same with Manger. Corbins coaching has a lot to do with how our team played.

 

[addictionary]

Damn. This was Burkes rookie season and we already want to cash out and say "We didn't see many flashes of greatness in him." It was his rookie season! Same with Manger. Corbins coaching has a lot to do with how our team played.

burke' career is literally over after that season that he failed to average cp3's current stats and curry's touch.


he should be tarred and feathered.

 

[fishonjazz]

If you're saying that players whose strength is making the right team play instead of overpowering his opposite number would look "worthless" on a team full of players who have no clue how to play team basketball, I suppose that's true. Teams filled with knuckle-heads generally don't win though. Only 1 of the 15 post-Jordan championships has been won by an arguably "stupid" team, the 2006 Heat (and honestly, I don't know enough about this team to feel confident in this assessment). The other 14 (soon to be 15) have relied heavily on smart teamplay to win.

Diaw is valuable to teams with players who know how to play basketball.

This is the biggest reason I'm low on Kanter at the moment. He just doesn't get it. He may find a feel for the game eventually, but he may not. We'll see.

I think you make a good point about diaw playing on a team of smart players who "know how to play basketball."

Now i would ask the question Were diaw, parker, duncan, splitter, mills, bellinelli and ginobli all just born with the "know how to play basketball" gene and all of our guys simply born without it.
Or does it help that all of those guys have tons of experience, chemistry, playing time together, and popovich for a coach.

If "knowing how to play basketball" is just a gene that you are born with and our dumb team just doesn't have it then i think we are screwed.
Hopefully getting alot of time on the court together and having a few years to develop chemisty + snyder evolving into a great coach will take our dumb team into the realm of the intelligent teams

 

[GVC]

I think you make a good point about diaw playing on a team of smart players who "know how to play basketball."

Now i would ask the question Were diaw, parker, duncan, splitter, mills, bellinelli and ginobli all just born with the "know how to play basketball" gene and all of our guys simply born without it.
Or does it help that all of those guys have tons of experience, chemistry, playing time together, and popovich for a coach.

If "knowing how to play basketball" is just a gene that you are born with and our dumb team just doesn't have it then i think we are screwed.
Hopefully getting alot of time on the court together and having a few years to develop chemisty + snyder evolving into a great coach will take our dumb team into the realm of the intelligent teams

I think it's just as difficult, if not more difficult, to turn a dumb player into a smart player as it is to turn an un-athletic/un-skilled player into an athletic/skilled player. Fans tend to take the mental side of the game for granted.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think it's just as difficult, if not more difficult, to turn a dumb player into a smart player as it is to turn an un-athletic/un-skilled player into an athletic/skilled player. Fans tend to take the mental side of the game for granted.

so what should the jazz do if we have a team full of crappy dumb players?

do you think we can trade some crappy dumb players for some good smart ones? or are we simply screwed for a minimum of 5 more years or so. (the time it may take to draft and sign a bunch of good smart players and get then developed and playing as a team ro replace our current guys)

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

so what should the jazz do if we have a team full of crappy dumb players?

do you think we can trade some crappy dumb players for some good smart ones? or are we simply screwed for a minimum of 5 more years or so. (the time it may take to draft and sign a bunch of good smart players and get then developed and playing as a team ro replace our current guys)

you're in the correct thread, hombre!

Tarde teh dumb ones.

 

[GVC]

so what should the jazz do if we have a team full of crappy dumb players?

do you think we can trade some crappy dumb players for some good smart ones? or are we simply screwed for a minimum of 5 more years or so. (the time it may take to draft and sign a bunch of good smart players and get then developed and playing as a team ro replace our current guys)

The Jazz aren't a team full of crappy dumb players:

Trey and Gordo are plenty smart, but are lacking physically (I know many disagree with this physical assessment).

Alec and Favors are more gifted physically, albeit not quite elite (at least as far as Alec's strength is concerned). They also seem to have an adequate feel for the game overall.

Kanter seems lost out there a lot of the time.


Those Deron-Boozer teams were incredibly intelligent. Despite the success of smart teams, intelligence still seems to be undervalued by GMs, which partly explains how San Antonio is able to assemble amazing, deep teams without going into the LT. With that said, as opposed to a lot of individual skills (especially rebounding and on-ball scoring), which seem to display diminishing returns, there seem to be increasing returns to passing and overall team play. That is, if you have a team with very little talent or smarts, finding a player who does something well individually (eg. Al and on-ball scoring) will have a greater impact than adding a smart player. Smarts become increasingly valuable as you have more smarts. Having the patience to build a team correctly can be difficult, as shiny, young players with flashy individual skills put more people in seats in the short-run.

 

[fishonjazz]

The Jazz aren't a team full of crappy dumb players:

Trey and Gordo are plenty smart, but are lacking physically (I know many disagree with this physical assessment).

Alec and Favors are more gifted physically, albeit not quite elite (at least as far as Alec's strength is concerned). They also seem to have an adequate feel for the game overall.

Kanter seems lost out there a lot of the time.


Those Deron-Boozer teams were incredibly intelligent. Despite the success of smart teams, intelligence still seems to be undervalued by GMs, which partly explains how San Antonio is able to assemble amazing, deep teams without going into the LT. With that said, as opposed to a lot of individual skills (especially rebounding and on-ball scoring), which seem to display diminishing returns, there seem to be increasing returns to passing and overall team play. That is, if you have a team with very little talent or smarts, finding a player who does something well individually (eg. Al and on-ball scoring) will have a greater impact than adding a smart player. Smarts become increasingly valuable as you have more smarts. Having the patience to build a team correctly can be difficult, as shiny, young players with flashy individual skills put more people in seats in the short-run.

good answer

 

[Tarkanian]

If you're saying that players whose strength is making the right team play instead of overpowering his opposite number would look "worthless" on a team full of players who have no clue how to play team basketball, I suppose that's true. Teams filled with knuckle-heads generally don't win though. Only 1 of the 15 post-Jordan championships has been won by an arguably "stupid" team, the 2006 Heat (and honestly, I don't know enough about this team to feel confident in this assessment). The other 14 (soon to be 15) have relied heavily on smart teamplay to win.

Diaw is valuable to teams with players who know how to play basketball.

This is the biggest reason I'm low on Kanter at the moment. He just doesn't get it. He may find a feel for the game eventually, but he may not. We'll see.

I have watched Diaw enough to know that he is a finesse player who was believed to be a SF. Nowadays he is playing the big guy.
But it is not "his" strength to make the right plays, it almost never is!
The magic and the glory belongs to the coach.
Put him in last years Jazz and he would be doing nothing.
What I meant is easy to grasp actually.
Diaw is a mediocre player. He was not much of a factor with the French NT, when that team was in shambles.
GVC, I have been trying to say this and you put it better thanI would ever have done inyour quoted post. Jazz were a team in turmoil and you cannot expect young players to stand up and put things in order, WHERE there happens to be a professional coach.
Jazz had none.
Plus, RJ could have been a vocal leader, which he was not or simply failed to be.
Pointing fingers at EK was stupid, he should have done that way before.
Back to the topic, give this team to, say, Tom Izzo and re-build the bench;
and Jazz, as they are now, are a mediocre play-off team.

 

[GVC]

I have watched Diaw enough to know that he is a finesse player who was believed to be a SF. Nowadays he is playing the big guy.
But it is not "his" strength to make the right plays, it almost never is!
The magic and the glory belongs to the coach.
Put him in last years Jazz and he would be doing nothing.
What I meant is easy to grasp actually.
Diaw is a mediocre player. He was not much of a factor with the French NT, when that team was in shambles.
GVC, I have been trying to say this and you put it better thanI would ever have done inyour quoted post. Jazz were a team in turmoil and you cannot expect young players to stand up and put things in order, WHERE there happens to be a professional coach.
Jazz had none.
Plus, RJ could have been a vocal leader, which he was not or simply failed to be.
Pointing fingers at EK was stupid, he should have done that way before.
Back to the topic, give this team to, say, Tom Izzo and re-build the bench;
and Jazz, as they are now, are a mediocre play-off team.

I certainly never said that. I'm also not terribly receptive to those who blame everything on the coach without further explanation. Kanter failed to perform this season, end of story. That's on him.

 

[Tarkanian]

I certainly never said that. I'm also not terribly receptive to those who blame everything on the coach without further explanation. Kanter failed to perform this season, end of story. That's on him.

of course you did.
You said Diaw did the right plays.
I reminded that he was not that "intelligent" with the NT, when that team was in turmoil. (that is called rebuttal, if you would care and heed)
Coach is more important than role players or young guns with little or no experience.
Under the guidance of Popovich for example, Kanter would play.
Replace Splitter with Kanter, SAS would still win.
I accept that EK underperformed but you can not expect me to ignore sorry status Jazz were in whole year.
or you can.

I know you are a great bball mind and this stubborn attitude is alarmingly so un-GVC.

 

[franklin]

With Snyder as our coach, I think he has a chance to flourish. I still think he is Jameer Nelson with better play-making ability (though he didnt show it last year) and that is a pretty good player.

Like NAOS said, replaceable.