I would too, but there may be some expediency for the Lakers since Deng is on the path to filing a grievance with the union and forcing his way off the team. If the Lakers' preferred method was a buyout, I think it might've happened already.
Lakers Trade Idea
- Thread starter LoPo
- Start date
I would too, but there may be some expediency for the Lakers since Deng is on the path to filing a grievance with the union and forcing his way off the team. If the Lakers' preferred method was a buyout, I think it might've happened already.
Jesus, do any of you even watch the lakers? Good Christ....
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Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
The only way I would even consider a call from the Lakers is if a few things happen
- Ingram is mentioned first as the sweet spot
- A future first round pick like 2022 or higher
- Randle and Clarkson would have to be added (Sorry Cy i like Randle)
The Jazz would be screwed for the next 2 year in salary even if they did the stretch provision on Deng's contract (if they can use it on aquired players)
Jazz would have 3 players as free agents in the summer of 2018
- Hood (He is the wild card because right not he is worth a little more then Ingles got)
- Exum (With the injury he should be fairly cheap)
- Randle (He is also an interesting piece as he is still young)
That would be a heck of a lot of money to tie up that summer.
Under contract the Jazz would have
Rubio
Mitchell, Clarkson
Ingles
Ingram, Deng
Gobert, Bradley
1st round draft pick
Maybe a second rounder
Options on
O'Neale
Jerebko
Udoh (I think)
- Ingram is mentioned first as the sweet spot
- A future first round pick like 2022 or higher
- Randle and Clarkson would have to be added (Sorry Cy i like Randle)
The Jazz would be screwed for the next 2 year in salary even if they did the stretch provision on Deng's contract (if they can use it on aquired players)
Jazz would have 3 players as free agents in the summer of 2018
- Hood (He is the wild card because right not he is worth a little more then Ingles got)
- Exum (With the injury he should be fairly cheap)
- Randle (He is also an interesting piece as he is still young)
That would be a heck of a lot of money to tie up that summer.
Under contract the Jazz would have
Rubio
Mitchell, Clarkson
Ingles
Ingram, Deng
Gobert, Bradley
1st round draft pick
Maybe a second rounder
Options on
O'Neale
Jerebko
Udoh (I think)
mellow
Well-Known Member
I missed that.
Deng for the Lakers and Dudley for the Suns are both guys the Jazz allegedly pursued, and both are out of the rotation now. I also keep waiting to hear how Faried in Denver is a problem now that he was demoted from starter to non-rotation guy.
Dude I don’t know what you been watching. But Randle is not better than Favors and it isn’t even close. Take your hate goggles and be real. Trade Favors for someone better than Randle. Holy ****! And he doesn’t spread the offense like you supposedly say is wrong with Favors on the team. Seriously what does your hate for the guy stem from?
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I don't hate Favors. I hate how he fits next to Gobert.
Randle is better than Favors. Now and definitely soon since Favors hasn't shown any promise in a couple years outside the Clippers Game 7.
Its not personal. Favors just does not fit. Randle might not be as perfect as Kuzma, but he is a good young player who would help us.
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You hate the Favors fit but you want Randle, a guy who relies even more on postups than Favors and is a much worse shooter? Que?
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LoPo
Well-Known Member
I think he can get better.
A bunch if crybabies like you whined about the limitations of guys like Millsap, Carroll and even Wes Matthews. "They arent this", "they can't do that", etc, etc. You dont know **** off his short sample for a bad team. There is a high ceiling for guys with his drive.
Randle has limitations, but he's an attainable young player with great potential who is better than our current PF option who does not deliver.
You fought like hell for Kuzma and I didnt cry because of random college numbers and projections. I backed you. He has become better than even you thought.
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Better? How is he going to get better in an offense that won't play to his strengths? It will be Derrick Favors 2.0, which you claim to hate.
Randle is not better than Favors.
Put Favors in an offense that plays uptempo, lets him have control of the offense with a ton of post-ups and PNR when he is in, and put him next to a stretch big and he would look much better.
Put Favors in an offense that plays uptempo, lets him have control of the offense with a ton of post-ups and PNR when he is in, and put him next to a stretch big and he would look much better.
And there is a big difference between pining for Kuzma because he was a player whose skill-set fit the Jazz's offense and you pining for a guy who is a complete non-fit. To make matters worse, you constantly bag on Favors and can't even realize Randle in this offense would be even worse than Favors (not to mention the fall off on defense).
And Randle isnt going to improve if he is playing out of position the way Quin plays his PF's.
Just like Kanter couldn't improve in Utah because he was asked to be a pick and pop big.
Just like Favors development has stalled because he has been asked to be a pick and pop big.
Jazz have to stop trying to put squares pegs into round holes in the PF position. Trading any assets to repeat the cycle with Randle would be a huge error.
Just like Kanter couldn't improve in Utah because he was asked to be a pick and pop big.
Just like Favors development has stalled because he has been asked to be a pick and pop big.
Jazz have to stop trying to put squares pegs into round holes in the PF position. Trading any assets to repeat the cycle with Randle would be a huge error.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
It's fact. Just look at Randle this season vs Randle last season.
What happened to make his numbers jump so high in efficiency?
Answer: They added two stretch bigs and told him to stop taking 3's and to scale back on the mid-range looks. He has so much more space this year in the paint.
Randle shot chart this year: http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=203944
Randle shot chart last year: http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2016&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=203944
So what's going to happen if he comes to Utah? We are back to the Randle that has to get more offense from mid-range and try to shoot 3's.
How is Randle going to react when Quin inevitably shorts him minutes because the fit is awful? How is he going to react when he never get the ball because he is the 5th option? How is he going to react when he never gets post looks? When he never gets PNR opportunities because of Gobert? He's a worse fit than Favors and within a year you would be trashing Randle just like you trash Favors. It's simply facts.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Nah, I trash Favors because he doesn't fit, is average, has been overrated by fanboys like you for too long now, is not staying this summer, is on the decline, does not play hard, and cost us other better players because he once was a player with potential.
Trade him. 1 rebound tonight. What are the excuses?
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Trade him. 1 rebound tonight. What are the excuses?
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So again, how does trading for Randle and repeating the same cycle help the Jazz at all?
Square pegs in round holes.
And I'm not a Favors fanboy at all. I'm just not reactionary and can spot why things don't work. Trading anything for Randle would be repeating the cycle. He would fail in Utah. If they are trading him straight up for Favors? Sure, take a chance. If the Jazz have to give up anything at all for him, no thanks.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
December 15, do one of these:
Favors, JoeJ, and Udoh OR Jerekbo
for
Ingram, Clarkson, and Deng
OR
Favors, JoeJ, and Udoh OR Jerekbo
for
Kuzma, Clarkson and Deng
One year of luxury tax then Rubio and Burks come off the books
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Favors, JoeJ, and Udoh OR Jerekbo
for
Ingram, Clarkson, and Deng
OR
Favors, JoeJ, and Udoh OR Jerekbo
for
Kuzma, Clarkson and Deng
One year of luxury tax then Rubio and Burks come off the books
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LoPo
Well-Known Member
The trending story for NBA summer 2018 will be the efforts the LA Lakers make to get stars to put next to Lonzo. They, and Magic especially, care more about flashy players and moves than having patience.
As we all know, the Lakers have to shed Deng to add a free agent like Paul George. He has to be traded. If they waive him under the stretch provision, he's still going to cost them around 8-10% of their cap number. Deng has to be traded end of story. Maybe Clarkson too, but at least Deng.
Currently, Lonzo is untouchable and Kuzma is becoming untouchable for them. Even Randle is becoming a player who thrives next to Lonzo in the pick and roll. Lopez and Caldwell-Pope are good expirings but not essential to their plan.
So that brings me to Brandon Ingram. He was untouchable last summer. They wouldn't trade him in a dump deal like they did Russell. I bring him back up in this thread because I think he is the best way to dump Deng. Here is why:
#1 - he has been good, but Kuzma and Lonzo have been better and more promising.
#2 - after 1.5 seasons, he hasn't emerged as a star quality guy when Magic and others want flash.
#3 - he plays the same positions as all of the targets LA will have this summer. Paul George, LeBron and even Melo are guys who would send Ingram to the bench. This is also important because Lonzo, Kuzma and Randle do not play positions of those primary targets.
#4 - contract. As the #2 pick, his contract grows much faster than a guy like Kuzma. Even Randle could be kept this summer for relatively close to what Ingram makes on his rookie deal the next two guaranteed years. And, how much will Ingram demand in a new deal in a couple years. Is this something worth it to the Lakers or would they rather spend the money on a proven commodity like Klay Thompson, etc.
After all that longwindedness, what do Jazz fans think of Ingram?
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As we all know, the Lakers have to shed Deng to add a free agent like Paul George. He has to be traded. If they waive him under the stretch provision, he's still going to cost them around 8-10% of their cap number. Deng has to be traded end of story. Maybe Clarkson too, but at least Deng.
Currently, Lonzo is untouchable and Kuzma is becoming untouchable for them. Even Randle is becoming a player who thrives next to Lonzo in the pick and roll. Lopez and Caldwell-Pope are good expirings but not essential to their plan.
So that brings me to Brandon Ingram. He was untouchable last summer. They wouldn't trade him in a dump deal like they did Russell. I bring him back up in this thread because I think he is the best way to dump Deng. Here is why:
#1 - he has been good, but Kuzma and Lonzo have been better and more promising.
#2 - after 1.5 seasons, he hasn't emerged as a star quality guy when Magic and others want flash.
#3 - he plays the same positions as all of the targets LA will have this summer. Paul George, LeBron and even Melo are guys who would send Ingram to the bench. This is also important because Lonzo, Kuzma and Randle do not play positions of those primary targets.
#4 - contract. As the #2 pick, his contract grows much faster than a guy like Kuzma. Even Randle could be kept this summer for relatively close to what Ingram makes on his rookie deal the next two guaranteed years. And, how much will Ingram demand in a new deal in a couple years. Is this something worth it to the Lakers or would they rather spend the money on a proven commodity like Klay Thompson, etc.
After all that longwindedness, what do Jazz fans think of Ingram?
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Handlogten's Heros
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Guys the lakers won't trade Ingram or Kuzma until they know that they are getting a big free agent and only if they have too... it is more likely you'd get future first rounders... 2021, 2023 plus Nance and Hart.
Worst case they know someone will do Ingram and Deng or Kuzma and Deng to get the space they need... unless Kuzma or Ingram fall off or get a catastrophic injury.
Worst case they know someone will do Ingram and Deng or Kuzma and Deng to get the space they need... unless Kuzma or Ingram fall off or get a catastrophic injury.