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Las Vegas: Worst Mass Shooting in US History

the names do not matter, because the names give them noteriety which they want!

the polcie should keep the name secret, and the media should not speak it;s name.
 
babe said:
the "Native American" ghost dance/kiva/sweat lodge spiritualist world view is an "ideology" in my book, as is the crap about psychology you peddle sometimes.

An "Ideology" is a cohesive world view based on rational thought, any kind of such human-designed world view.

Early Christian "gnostics" and the writings of the Apostle Paul are ideological as well

So also with Confucian thought, Taoist beliefs, Hindu beliefs, Secular Humanism, Darwinism, any kind of evolutionary model, standard geological science, globalism or even Vegans in most cases.

My concern with "ideological beliefs" is the way we use them to create shortcuts to actual understanding, or objective observation. We love shortcuts, mentally. Saves us a lot of trouble, blinds us to a lot of real stuff.

Political ideology is particularly concerning..... Particular historical determinism of any kind used to make value judgments on whether someone is on the right historical side of anything.....

Perhaps you could respond that I am as ideological as anyone.... maybe...but I think the fact is that there is no self-existing "history" or historical operative principle that prevails over human choices.

We do what we do. That's history. We choose to believe what we love most (to believe). There's nothing more to it. Or if you think there is, explain it somehow sometime.

Most religions attribute self-existence to God, most scientists attribute self-existence to "laws of nature" or fundamental principles of forces. I suppose your belief in "History" encompasses a view of some kind of direction you consider inexorable progress. lol.

and you think Hillary is the best we can do. God how stupid can humans be.
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I agree with most of what you're saying here, with the exception of the notion of inexorable progress in history and ranking Hillary. Otherwise, I take my country very seriously, and very personally. We Americans might have been born, or nurtured, or both, to be Right or Left, but we still do need to find a way to be truly fellow Americans, each to all. Would help to have a leader that understood that simple fact. Right now, he focuses on the culture wars as a means to maintaining his base. His base will forgive every failure to legislate his campaign promises, so long as he continues to speak their language in the culture wars. And it's those culture wars that are driving us further and further apart. That's simply not leadership.
 
babe said:
the "Native American" ghost dance/kiva/sweat lodge spiritualist world view is an "ideology" in my book, as is the crap about psychology you peddle sometimes.

An "Ideology" is a cohesive world view based on rational thought, any kind of such human-designed world view.

Early Christian "gnostics" and the writings of the Apostle Paul are ideological as well

So also with Confucian thought, Taoist beliefs, Hindu beliefs, Secular Humanism, Darwinism, any kind of evolutionary model, standard geological science, globalism or even Vegans in most cases.

My concern with "ideological beliefs" is the way we use them to create shortcuts to actual understanding, or objective observation. We love shortcuts, mentally. Saves us a lot of trouble, blinds us to a lot of real stuff.

Political ideology is particularly concerning..... Particular historical determinism of any kind used to make value judgments on whether someone is on the right historical side of anything.....

Perhaps you could respond that I am as ideological as anyone.... maybe...but I think the fact is that there is no self-existing "history" or historical operative principle that prevails over human choices.

We do what we do. That's history. We choose to believe what we love most (to believe). There's nothing more to it. Or if you think there is, explain it somehow sometime.

Most religions attribute self-existence to God, most scientists attribute self-existence to "laws of nature" or fundamental principles of forces. I suppose your belief in "History" encompasses a view of some kind of direction you consider inexorable progress. lol.

and you think Hillary is the best we can do. God how stupid can humans be.
Click to expand...

Continuing with my thoughts from the previous comment, when considering Timothy Snyder's thoughts on the difference between patriotism and nationalism, I regard myself as an American patriot to Trump as an American uber nationalist, and I've never known uber nationalism, which he is elevating in the aforementioned culture wars, to do a people much good at all. So, tell me what Snyder has gotten wrong here:

“The president is a nationalist, which is not at all the same thing as a patriot. A nationalist encourages us to be our worst, and then tells us that we are the best. A nationalist, “although endlessly brooding on power, victory, defeat, revenge,” wrote Orwell, tends to be “uninterested in what happens in the real world.” Nationalism is relativist, since the only truth is the resentment we feel when we contemplate others. As the novelist Danilo Kiš put it, nationalism “has no universal values, aesthetic or ethical.” A patriot, by contrast, wants the nation to live up to its ideals, which means asking us to be our best selves. A patriot must be concerned with the real world, which is the only place where his country can be loved and sustained. A patriot has universal values, standards by which he judges his nation, always wishing it well—and wishing that it would do better. Democracy failed in Europe in the 1920s, ’30s, and ’40s, and it is failing not only in much of Europe but in many parts of the world today. It is that history and experience that reveals to us the dark range of our possible futures. A nationalist will say that “it can’t happen here,” which is the first step toward disaster. A patriot says that it could happen here, but that we will stop it."

― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century
 
babe said:
the "Native American" ghost dance/kiva/sweat lodge spiritualist world view is an "ideology" in my book, as is the crap about psychology you peddle sometimes.

An "Ideology" is a cohesive world view based on rational thought, any kind of such human-designed world view.

Early Christian "gnostics" and the writings of the Apostle Paul are ideological as well

So also with Confucian thought, Taoist beliefs, Hindu beliefs, Secular Humanism, Darwinism, any kind of evolutionary model, standard geological science, globalism or even Vegans in most cases.

My concern with "ideological beliefs" is the way we use them to create shortcuts to actual understanding, or objective observation. We love shortcuts, mentally. Saves us a lot of trouble, blinds us to a lot of real stuff.

Political ideology is particularly concerning..... Particular historical determinism of any kind used to make value judgments on whether someone is on the right historical side of anything.....

Perhaps you could respond that I am as ideological as anyone.... maybe...but I think the fact is that there is no self-existing "history" or historical operative principle that prevails over human choices.

We do what we do. That's history. We choose to believe what we love most (to believe). There's nothing more to it. Or if you think there is, explain it somehow sometime.

Most religions attribute self-existence to God, most scientists attribute self-existence to "laws of nature" or fundamental principles of forces. I suppose your belief in "History" encompasses a view of some kind of direction you consider inexorable progress. lol.

and you think Hillary is the best we can do. God how stupid can humans be.
Click to expand...

Hey babe. Just some final thoughts in reply. No, I don't subscribe to "inexorable progress" where human history is concerned. I might be tempted to make an exception where human technology is concerned. The Stone Age upwards after all. But I'm not sure I can even subscribe to the notion of "progress" there. Witness the rise of all the dire warnings where one technological frontier, AI, is concerned. As well, I might be tempted to not include digital technology. After all, it has produced social media. Just looking at the comments people lob at each other, both anonymously and in their own names, on Facebook and elsewhere, it would be hard to call that progress. Indeed, social media has deepened the culture wars in America. That's not progress at all. I seem to be addicted to social media, and I cannot honestly say that's a good thing at all. I sometimes wonder what the hey I did with myself before picking up my iPad accompanied by my first morning coffee. Not good.

Also, although you don't mention it, I do not believe history repeats itself in a literal sense. Instead, I can derive lessons from it. I look for similar responses by human beings to the stress initiated by rapid social and cultural change. And the rise of similar styles of leadership within societies undergoing rapid social and cultural change. And the similar ways such leadership looks to take advantage of segments of a population reacting to the stress they feel. And the dangers that can arise within a society when such leaders do make their appearance at such times in a nation's history. To really come to grips and understand all that more clearly does require understanding human psychology and human motivation, both of which can be similar in different times and different places. So, human psychology is not irrelevant here at all, though I'm no psychologist. But that is not history repeating itself, as much as it is understanding similar responses and results within social groups undergoing rapid cultural and social change. Our ongoing culture wars are a clear example that this is happening in America, and I do honestly believe that Trump's refusal to try and bridge the gap is a clear failure of leadership on his part. Instead, he stokes the flames of that culture war. That ain't good, IMHO.

I've never mentioned the Ghost Dance, but that is one excellent example of a type of response sometimes seen in the face of rapid social and cultural change. In this case, a sadly desperate hope for the return of a way of life under fatal assault.

Well enough. I'm far off topic here, but appreciate your effort to characterize me. You got some things right. You know, you do make me work hard. And that is a good thing in my book...
 
Archie Moses said:
I'd rather be Archie, tbh. You can't Biff a thread around here.
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You changed your name again? By the way, how did you pronounce "McGibblets"? Was it "mick-jib-lets" or "mick-gib-lets"?
 
Stoked said:
The security guard that got shot in the leg has disappeared. He was supposed to do an interview and now he has completely fallen off the grid.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-jesus-campos-vegas-20171016-story.html
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Pretty lame article that's only adding fuel to the fire. You mean immediate details weren't accurate and were fixed upon investigation? My gosh, what a cover up! Accounts from eye witnesses weren't down to the nano-second accurate? Did those people blink or something when they were staring at their quartz watch for 16 hours a day?
 
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