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LDS church membership statistics

I had issues with one mission pres. After a particular incident I lost some respect for him and the way he handled it. But they are humans too and humans don't always get along. And I think that we often assume that due to the position they are always acting in a state of almost constant inspiration, when in reality they are probably largely muddling along like the rest of us. But our assumptions create a higher than reasonable standard for people that are, in the end, just people.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yeah, I was under your last pres for a few months, I can see him having that approach. I am not trying to say this was official church doctrine, but to hear almost the exact same message from 2 higher up authorities gives some weight to the notion that having bigger families and marrying young are things the church espoused at one point, probably largely right up until the Proclamation on the Family.


Btw, I had 5 mission presidents if you count the MTC.

Pinnegar
Burton
Harper
Paul
Meiser

Wow can't believe I could remember all the names. lol

Of them all Burton was my favorite. Awesome dude. We still keep in touch somewhat.
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I've got you beat by 2. I had 7 (in an 18-mth mission): 2 at the MTC, 2 in NY and 3 in Brazil.
 
Core4 said:
I've got you beat by 2. I had 7 (in an 18-mth mission): 2 at the MTC, 2 in NY and 3 in Brazil.
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just trying to comprehend this saga. . . . you studied Portugeese in the MTC...... oh maybe six weeks, that happened spanning an MP turnover...... gotcha. . . .


then, pending approval of a visa for Brazil were sent to NYC where there's a Little Brazil where inside four weeks there was another MP turnover. . . .

but that leaves you in Brazil for maybe fifteen months. . . . how did you chalk up three MPs there? one turnover I can understand, but that's only two of them. . . . hhmmmm. . . . did one of the MPs have a short term because of medical reasons or something?

how do you feel this relates to your present world-view? A lot of kids on missions get the idea the MPs are Jesus-level authorities. . . . I imagine you saw some things that brought your awe down to earth.
 
Interesting stuff, how much of the growth in these religious groups are simply from child birth? I haven't looked at the data but it seems to me religious groups love having babies so this could explain the growth rate in their churches, especially Mormons, Catholics and Muslims).

Buster bars are better than Dilly Bars Dalamon.
 
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babe said:
just trying to comprehend this saga. . . . you studied Portugeese in the MTC...... oh maybe six weeks, that happened spanning an MP turnover...... gotcha. . . .


then, pending approval of a visa for Brazil were sent to NYC where there's a Little Brazil where inside four weeks there was another MP turnover. . . .

but that leaves you in Brazil for maybe fifteen months. . . . how did you chalk up three MPs there? one turnover I can understand, but that's only two of them. . . . hhmmmm. . . . did one of the MPs have a short term because of medical reasons or something?

how do you feel this relates to your present world-view? A lot of kids on missions get the idea the MPs are Jesus-level authorities. . . . I imagine you saw some things that brought your awe down to earth.
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Only thing I can think of is he had a MP turn over then his mission split into two and he got the new MP.
 
If we're talking multiple mission presidents, I had 5 without any mission presidents being replaced/going home or missions getting split. 1 at the MTC (there may actually be one more here, bringing the total to 6, since I went to the MTC twice during my mission), 1 in North Carolina, 1 in Indonesia, 1 in Singapore, 1 in Australia.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
To try to answer your question, at least from my perspective, for what it's worth. It is an interesting topic because for years now, the LDS Church has both informally (part of LDS culture) and formally referenced high growth rates as evidence of the Church's divine mission and its truthfulness. This includes interpreting Daniel 2 as prophesying the rise of the Mormon Church, and the rapid growth being a fulfillment of this prophecy. For rank and file, the rapid growth rates also provide a comforting 'social proof' that serves to validate their own beliefs. So, the way I see it, if the LDS Church and its members like to think such things and make such claims, it's of interest to some see whether the evidence actually supports these claims. From where I sit, if LDS members are uncomfortable that other people put their claims to the test, they ought not make the claims to begin with.
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so it's basically "we're telling the truth because people believe we're telling the truth, not because we know it's really the truth..."

...like most religions I guess!

who can really "know" anything, right?

But then again, if it's a matter of faith, and the basis of your faith is that "everybody else is doing it" then I don't think that's a real strong basis for faith...

or maybe it's the strongest? who knows...
 
moevillini said:
so it's basically "we're telling the truth because people believe we're telling the truth, not because we know it's really the truth..."

...like most religions I guess!

who can really "know" anything, right?

But then again, if it's a matter of faith, and the basis of your faith is that "everybody else is doing it" then I don't think that's a real strong basis for faith...

or maybe it's the strongest? who knows...
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This strikes me as comprehending philosophy and religion on a world-class level.

Disbelievers often resort to the idea that religions (or philosophical systems, or any human beliefs for that matter) are made-up by people invoking the authority of either God or "Reason" somehow. . . . . and this would include most Secular Humanists or even Scientists, in fact. Sometimes strikes me as a comedy of sorts to see people carrying on warfare with one another for their different beliefs. . . .

But back to the specific ideas sometimes resorted to by advocates/apologists/believers in the Restoration of the Gospel claimed by Joseph Smith. . . .

The use of the figure in Daniel about the Kingdom of God being a stone cut from a mountain that would roll forth to fill the whole Earth. . . . probably warmed the hearts of some Jews, then some Christians as well. Mormons are only following an old hope. . . .did not actually invent it themselves, just applied it to themselves.

This sort of figure was probably not used around Kirtland after the Kirtland Anti-Banking institutional failure banikrupted Joseph Smith and many others, and led to about half the number of Mormons just heading for the woods to make a new start. . . . nor in Nauvoo after the assassination/martyrdom of Joseph Smith, nor when the Edmunds-Tucker Act had resulted in the Federal Government seizure of all LDS Church property and the incarceration of many leaders and sent the rest into hiding from the law. . . .

At that point in time, the LDS leadership negotiated an end to polygamy for the Church, and secured multi-million-dollars in loans from Chase bank, and Americanized its members by agreeing to send the Mormon children to public schools, closing many private Church-run elementary, and secondary schools, and by edict assigned many Mormons to change political party affiliation from Democrat to Republican, promising competitive elections in Utah preparatory to Utah becoming a State.

By the time Heber J. Grant had worked for Chase for a number of years and then become President of the LDS Church, a new campaign of positivist ideology was begun. Grant declared from the Pulpit that the New York Bankers were fine people and worthy examples for Mormon emulation, and promoted Mormon small business entrepreneurship. . . . and scattered "united order" co-operatives/communal efforts were abandoned. . . . the idea of people working for the welfare of the community was drummed out with emphasis on individual enterprise. . . . leading to some spectacular successes on both the democrat and republican sides of the Mormon aisle.

Mormons may still fondly believe their prosperity is a fulfillment of Daniel's vision, financially at least. The LDS Church as an institution has grown from a zero in 1890 to perhaps having a net worth of 100 million in 1950. Around 1980 the figure was close to 100 billion, and I'd estimate today nearing 1 Trillion. A majority of assets are buildings and properties used for worship, and a significant fraction are ranches, dairies, and farms that grew from volunteer "Stake Welfare" projects, and form the foundation of the LDS Church worldwide relief organizations. But there is a nationally-significant Mormon presence in US corporate interests as well.

And while I may deplore the association of many LDS leaders and prominent managers of public enterprises like KSL and Deseret News with the various "grass-roots organizations" of the New World Order crowd, I cannot help but feel a little pride that one of my relatives was instrumental in organizing the LDS Church assets and setting it on a successful continuing basis, financially-speaking. . . . And as a landlord with some rentals being paid by LDS bishops because of one reason or another, I can say that the LDS Church has contributed to my own financial stability. . . . and I think probably makes a mark in that department nationally. . . .

Just think of it as some billions in private charity contributing to people's medical care and welfare in times of need. And it does not print any fiat currency.
 
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