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Legalize Cannabis

It's exaggerations like these that hurt the pothead's case.

There is less than 1,000 prisoners per state for any type of marijuana offense let alone simple possession.
1. Gameface doesn't smoke weed (IIRC). You don't have to be a pothead to see what a terrible waste the War on Drugs is.

2. That number is for those in state and federal prisons. It's incredibly difficult (impossible?) to get data on how many people are being held in local and county prisons. I'd guess, given the number of marijuana-related arrests per year, that there are a lot who are unaccounted for.
 
It's exaggerations like these that hurt the pothead's case.

There is less than 1,000 prisoners per state for any type of marijuana offense let alone simple possession.

Oh, is that it? I thought it was unthinking ideologues who go through life accepting everything their like-minded fools tell them as long as it fits their worldview.
 
Some relevant info...

https://www.examiner.com/article/wh...t-to-get-arrest-for-marijuana-possession-utah

Arrests continue to ruin lives for people in possession of an herb. The latest statistcs show there were 4,288 arrests for marijuana offenses in Utah in 2007, representing an arrest rate of 162 per 100,000, which ranks Utah at number 46 in the nation. There were an estimated 145,000 past year marijuana users in Utah during 2007. Reconciling this estimate with the number of arrests for marijuana offenses provides an arrest rate of 2,957 per 100,000 users, which ranks Utah at number 31 in the nation.

In terms of overall severity of maximum sentences for marijuana possession, Utah ranks number 31 in the nation (based on penalties for a first offense). When it comes to penalties for just under 1 ounce of marijuana, Utah is ranked at number 4, along with 9 other states (because of similarities between states there are only 12 rankings in this category). Here are the penalties for possession of various amounts of marijuana in Utah:
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Amount Max. Sentence Max. Fine
1 Ounce 6 months $1,000
2 Ounces 1 year $2,500
3 Ounces 1 year $2,500
4 Ounces 1 year $2,500

Marijuana possession arrests accounted for 94% of all marijuana arrests in Utah during 2007. (Nationally, marijuana possession arrests account for 89% of all marijuana arrests.) There were 4,016 arrests for marijuana possession in Utah in 2007, and 272 arrests for marijuana sales. The arrest rate for marijuana possession in Utah was 152 per 100,000 for 2007, while the arrest rate for marijuana sales was 10. Marijuana arrests also accounted for 40% of all drug arrests in Utah during 2007.
 
Some more good info...
https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/51985413-90/marijuana-utah-shurtleff-medical.html.csp

Utah Attorney General Shurtleff is OK with legalizing medical marijuana

After months of intensive and taxing cancer treatment, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says he would support the Legislature considering the legalization of medical marijuana.

Shurtleff said he never used marijuana while he was undergoing treatment for colon cancer the past six months, but he did talk to several people who traveled out-of-state to get the drug.

"You can't stop throwing up, you can't keep nausea pills down … the tablet form doesn't work," Shurtleff said. "I certainly understand why people need it and doctors would prescribe it."

He said he wouldn't push for legislation, but if there is a lawmaker interested in sponsoring a bill, he would be willing to testify in favor of it.

Under current Utah law, possession of less than an ounce of marijuana can lead to a sentence of six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. The sale of any amount can result in a five-year sentence and a $5,000 fine.

Rep. Rebecca Chavez-Houck, D-Salt Lake City, said medicinal marijuana is an issue she has been interested in for some time and would like to see the Legislature study, although she doesn't anticipate sponsoring legislation in the upcoming session.

"It's one of those things we need to strike a very delicate balance, pursuing medical marijuana policy here in Utah," she said. "I understand it's very challenging."

She said she has heard from individuals and their family members who say it is useful for chronic pain management, and she is intrigued by New Mexico's policy, which has tighter controls than other states.

"For folks suffering from these challenges, these chronic diseases, to have that as an option is something that we shouldn't immediately say no," she said. "It's a very black-and-white issue for a number of people, and it shouldn't be that way."

Other Utah legislators say they would oppose any bill legalizing the drug for any purpose.

"I am always open to discussion on things, but I'm already decided personally on that one," said Sen. Allen Christensen, R-North Ogden, chairman of a Senate health committee.

Christensen said he understands the argument that it can ease pain and nausea for patients, but added that, based on what he has read, other states that have legalized medicinal marijuana have been unable to keep it under control.

"Like a lot of things, they have a good purpose," he said, "but they get misused and abused."

Rep. Paul Ray, R-Clearfield, said he would like to see marijuana studied to see if there really are benefits to its use. But it would take a change to federal law to allow that, he said.

In 2009, the Obama administration issued a memo directing federal prosecutors not to take action against states that have adopted medical marijuana laws as long as there are adequate controls in place.

Shurtleff agreed that any Utah program would have to have strict controls.

gehrke@sltrib.com
 
Convince you about what, that it should be legal, or that it is not as bad as alcohol when it comes to driving?

That it is as harmless when it comes to driving as you were stating. I think your point of view, at least initially, was that no one could possibly get into an accident because of impairment from marijuana. Based on the thread, though, I do believe that it impairs less than alcohol.
 
I love that pain killers aren't even up for debate, yet for marijuana we need to strike a delicate balance to maybe allow people to use it who are dying of cancer.

How many people here know someone who is addicted to pain medication? Maybe not to the point they are obtaining it illegally, but people who have been using pain medicine as prescribed for several months. Pain medicine is MUCH more of a problem than pot will ever be.
 
Ease up on the prison system by not incarcerating people who aren't actual criminals.

So people who break the law are not actual criminals? What are they, then?

OK, I know what you mean. But still, your sentence was quite odd.
 
As long as we're only putting around 1000 people per state in prison when they absolutely don't deserve to be there...

Who made you the law-maker, jury, and judge?

These people are in jail because they broke the law that was written by representatives of the people, were found guilty by a jury of their peers, and were sentenced by a judge appointed by another representative of the people.

Personally, I think I trust that combination of people to decide who deserves and doesn't deserve to be in prison a lot more than I would trust a single individual such as yourself (or myself, for that matter).

Edit: Reading that back, it came out a little harsher than I intended. I am still open to the idea that the law should be changed.
 
That it is as harmless when it comes to driving as you were stating. I think your point of view, at least initially, was that no one could possibly get into an accident because of impairment from marijuana. Based on the thread, though, I do believe that it impairs less than alcohol.

It is a strange argument to make. Alcohol is worse not because it is more impairing (I find pot to be the stronger intoxicant, unless you're piss drunk), but alcohol does something very strange to your judgement. Weed makes you paranoid and very cautious. People who drive while high usually drive very slowly because they're afraid of getting caught. Alcohol gives you equal amounts of courage and indifference to consequences. Drunk drivers often drive aggressively. That's probably what makes alcohol more dangerous.

But saying that it is safe to drive while high is really silly. Weed significantly slows your reaction time, make you spacey and forgetful, and affects your vision and hearing a bit. Maybe Salty is unhappy with the severity of DUI law, but that's a different subject.
 
That it is as harmless when it comes to driving as you were stating. I think your point of view, at least initially, was that no one could possibly get into an accident because of impairment from marijuana. Based on the thread, though, I do believe that it impairs less than alcohol.

My point wasn't that it's completely impossible. My point was that it's so rare and unlikely that it isn't worth keeping it illegal for that reason, and isn't worth the trouble of debating/writing/enforcing laws for it.
 
My point wasn't that it's completely impossible. My point was that it's so rare and unlikely that it isn't worth keeping it illegal for that reason, and isn't worth the trouble of debating/writing/enforcing laws for it.

I want to make sure I get this right. Are talking about marijuana being illegal or having it illegal to drive while high?
 
I want to make sure I get this right. Are talking about marijuana being illegal or having it illegal to drive while high?

I don't want to go over that whole thread again, but in summary...

The main reason weed is illegal right now is because supposedly it is dangerous to drive while high. The problem with making DUI laws similar to the alcohol laws is, the stuff stays in your system for weeks (or even months) after it is used. So you can be stone cold sober and test positive just because you smoked some a month ago.

Anyway, in the last thread where this was debated many studies were posted showing that police officers and drivers ed instructors were unable to detect any impairment to the driving of test subjects who had consumed a fairly significant amount of cannabis.

Again, I am not debating that you can smoke so much you pass out and that would obviously hinder your driving. But at the same time, when is the last time you heard about someone getting in a car crash and killing someone because they smoked a joint? And if it is such a rare and unlikely event, then there is no need to debate/write/enforce laws about it.
 
"I'm in favor of legalizing marijuana for several reasons. First, I don't believe it's more harmful than alcohol; in many ways, less. Second, by legalizing it, government can tax its sale, thereby providing us with ways to pay for public services that are now starved for revenue. Third, we don't use up scarce police and correctional resources on non-violent offenses. Fourth, we reduce the black-market premiums going to underground economies and to violence that's spread from Latin America up through central America and into Mexico. And so on..."

-Fmr. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich
 
I don't want to go over that whole thread again, but in summary...

The main reason weed is illegal right now is because supposedly it is dangerous to drive while high. The problem with making DUI laws similar to the alcohol laws is, the stuff stays in your system for weeks (or even months) after it is used. So you can be stone cold sober and test positive just because you smoked some a month ago.

Anyway, in the last thread where this was debated many studies were posted showing that police officers and drivers ed instructors were unable to detect any impairment to the driving of test subjects who had consumed a fairly significant amount of cannabis.

Again, I am not debating that you can smoke so much you pass out and that would obviously hinder your driving. But at the same time, when is the last time you heard about someone getting in a car crash and killing someone because they smoked a joint? And if it is such a rare and unlikely event, then there is no need to debate/write/enforce laws about it.

I absolutely reject the notion that driving while high should not be illegal. Absolutely. No room for debate there. Snoking and possesing marijuana should be legal and I think it is idiocy that it is not.
 
"I'm in favor of legalizing marijuana for several reasons. First, I don't believe it's more harmful than alcohol; in many ways, less. Second, by legalizing it, government can tax its sale, thereby providing us with ways to pay for public services that are now starved for revenue. Third, we don't use up scarce police and correctional resources on non-violent offenses. Fourth, we reduce the black-market premiums going to underground economies and to violence that's spread from Latin America up through central America and into Mexico. And so on..."

-Fmr. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich
 
I absolutely reject the notion that driving while high should not be illegal. Absolutely. No room for debate there. Snoking and possesing marijuana should be legal and I think it is idiocy that it is not.

I have 2 questions...

1: How did you come to this opinion? What did you base it on? You're aware that there are studies showing that cannabis use doesn't necessarily make driving more dangerous, right?

2: How will you determine who is high while driving and who is not high at that moment but was high earlier in the day?

I probably shouldn't even ask, lol. We went over all of this in that other thread already.
 
I absolutely reject the notion that driving while high should not be illegal.

I had to read this several times before I knew where you stood. It's like answering the question, "How are you doing?" with "I'm not unwell".
 
2: How will you determine who is high while driving and who is not high at that moment but was high earlier in the day?

We've been down this path before as well. If you use, you risk being busted regardless of whether you are high at that exact moment or not. There is no way to tell how recently you used, just that you have used. It's no different than getting a DUI for having narcotics in your system even though you haven't taken anything for 3 days.
 
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