Liberal Religion is Getting a "Trump Bump"

[Siro]

Ha ha. Good point. I'd argue that the Bible falls into the same flaws/traps as Churches do...then you remember that the Bible was assembled by...a Church. Almost as if they went through the sacred writings and found the books that most closely aligned with the message THEY wanted to get out.

I think every religion has truth, every religion has a lot of similars.

On the other hand, who likes their neighbors anyways?

I don't even know my neighbors.

Christians, and others, look at their religion and wonder why fellow believers don't like the things they like about it, and ignore the things they don't. But that's not the right question. If you can pick and choose, why believe any of it at all? Why even believe in God?

 

[green]

I don't even know my neighbors.

Christians, and others, look at their religion and wonder why fellow believers don't like the things they like about it, and ignore the things they don't. But that's not the right question. If you can pick and choose, why believe any of it at all? Why even believe in God?

Why do anything at all? We like to name things. We like to compartmentalize things. We have clocks, books, etc.

I think we are getting a little off point. Good is good. And a lot of good comes down to the intentions.

Whether you name it God, or Muhammed, or Chi, karma, or whatever, search out the good. I think it's ok to pick and choose. Pick the good. I think we can all find that. Forget/ignore the bad. The isolationism, the ranking of people, the exclusion of people because they are different.

"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things."

 

[fishonjazz]

Forget/ignore the bad. The isolationism, the ranking of people, the exclusion of people because they are different.

Even byu and byu fans?


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[Stoked]

So here's where I go with this thought process...

The Bible (if you believe it), says that God never changes. Which would seem to not work with what you're talking about above. Obvious there are changes going on. So is the Bible wrong? If you say yes, then how/why trust the rest of it? Just pick and choose what you like, don't like? Guess it depends on the person. Other option is that God doesn't change like the Bible says, but the people in charge are phonies. Well then what? Who can you trust/not trust?

Just for clarification, I'm not calling you out. I just like the discussion.

The Bible dramatically changes between the Old and New Testament. So now what?

 

[DutchJazzer]

The Bible dramatically changes between the Old and New Testament. So now what?

dont be a religion hater , you should listen to jordan b peterson on religion!


just youtube that man. i wont because he gets accused of something called "hate speech" even though it is just a smythical as a unicorn every logical man knows there is no such thing as hate speech

 

[NUMBERICA]

Hey like maybe next time people should show their displeasure for Trump by voting? Who knows it may just be more effective than protests after the election. A little theory I've been working on. I know it sounds crazy but I've got a hunch.

We MIGHT be able to get out of this alive and be able to say "OH, yeah, that ONE time that we seriously just handed the country over to a nepotist, brazenly misogynist, sex criminal, not-so-secretly racist, out-of-the playbook fascist authoritarian hopeful, pathologically lying buffoon with only his incredible privilege, ruthlessness, and knack for appealing to the lowest natures of people as a pure-savant of rhetoric AND ALL OF HIS MOUTH-BREATHING ACOLYTES. Yeah, whoops, we didn't think it could happen, BLAH BLAH BLAH... you know... we ****ed up. But it was ONE time." BUT ONLY IF PEOPLE LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT HOW THIS **** ****ING WORKS.

 

[green]

Even byu and byu fans?


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I did say there was an exception to every rule...

Lol.

 

[Stoked]

dont be a religion hater , you should listen to jordan b peterson on religion!


just youtube that man. i wont because he gets accused of something called "hate speech" even though it is just a smythical as a unicorn every logical man knows there is no such thing as hate speech

Stop with the wild assumptions.

Just asking a question based on his previous answer. I want to see how he squares that. I'm curious.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Of course you're a humanist. You believe in inherent human rights, don't you? What can be more humanist than that?

I also have to take into account that the Biblical figures who warned of false prophets really meant that they themselves were the real thing. It's like the prohibition on idols. It's really about worshiping the correct idol.

We protect nutcases in our society because we're no longer Christians. Saint Augustine warned that nothing we do can get us to heaven, because God is the final authority. That's monotheism. We now have Christian-flavored humanists arguing with atheist-flavored humanists. It is an amazing time. But maybe all of them were.

Not me though. I'm no humanist. Except when I am. Other times I'm a transhumanist cultist, but then I remember that I'm a nihilist. But really, isn't humanity incredible?

A belief in inherent human rights is not one that gained traction as part of Christian (or other religious) dogma but as a result of a humanist (Enlightenment) rationalism in Western Society. Most of modern society's 'liberal' beliefs about human rights/civil liberties, etc. are the result, not of religious doctrine/dogma, but of rational thinking/theorizing, again emanating largely out of the Enlightenment. Christianity/religion has done comparatively little to imform and promulate these relatively modern-day concepts, and where progress has been made (and continues to be made) in this area, it is humanist/rationalist thinking that is informing change in Christian/religious dogma, NOT the other way around. (All this is speaking very broadly.)

I am not convinced by Siro's argumant that Christian is dead and replaced by humanism, but I do buy the argument that humanism/rationalism has a far greater influence over Western moral thinking, and the progress of Western legal/moral development, than Christianity or any other religious dogma.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

All in all, considering that the Mormons were driven out of Missouri because they had a cooperative notion of economics and enough group cohesion to look like a threat to non-members, and because they were anti-slavery in a place where that was the hot button issue of the day.... and on and on down the historical trail of being pretty much excluded from, or seeking isolation from, mainstream society, the LDS have done pretty well to end up being as inclusive of others as they are.

Some of you voice concerns I've gone over myself at some point, and I see the validity of those concerns. I choose to let the poor Mormons live as they are, and pursue of policy of acceptance for those differences. But I'm not "active", and I don't go there to get my virtue-validating card, and I don't need their approval for my way of life, either. Easy to be tolerant on those terms.

I look at "God" in a conscious effort to not blame "God" for what people say, do, or believe. I prefer to believe there is a "God" on the Mormon notion generally, that of a Father in Heaven, a person actually of good character worthy of emulation and respect. If there is no "God" as I believe or imagine, it does not change my idea of what kind of person I should be.

I believe I should be a better person than I've ever been. I believe I should gain better understanding than I've ever had. I believe I should treat other people better than I ever have yet done. Lots of good stuff to reach for.

If the LDS people or leaders don't also believe that, I'd be pretty disappointed. I sorta think they do.

I think LDS leaders are getting better at this, but still have a ways to go on the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" thing. They are still struggling to apply this principle (which, if I understand the New Testament, supercedes anything found in the Old Testament, including 10 Commandments)to gays.

 

[sirkickyass]

Yesterday the preacher, from the pulpit, cited favorably the comic book series "Preacher." I was tempted to ask if his favorite part is when the inbred progeny of jesus flings his own feces at the Pope. The Trump Bumpers might be too liberal.

 

[RandyForRubio]

The Bible dramatically changes between the Old and New Testament. So now what?

God does not change though. The NT is just a fulfillment of OT prophesy.