Liberal Religion is Getting a "Trump Bump"

[jimmy eat jazz]

Of course you're a humanist. You believe in inherent human rights, don't you? What can be more humanist than that?

I also have to take into account that the Biblical figures who warned of false prophets really meant that they themselves were the real thing. It's like the prohibition on idols. It's really about worshiping the correct idol.

We protect nutcases in our society because we're no longer Christians. Saint Augustine warned that nothing we do can get us to heaven, because God is the final authority. That's monotheism. We now have Christian-flavored humanists arguing with atheist-flavored humanists. It is an amazing time. But maybe all of them were.

Not me though. I'm no humanist. Except when I am. Other times I'm a transhumanist cultist, but then I remember that I'm a nihilist. But really, isn't humanity incredible?

A belief in inherent human rights is not one that gained traction as part of Christian (or other religious) dogma but as a result of a humanist (Enlightenment) rationalism in Western Society. Most of modern society's 'liberal' beliefs about human rights/civil liberties, etc. are the result, not of religious doctrine/dogma, but of rational thinking/theorizing, again emanating largely out of the Enlightenment. Christianity/religion has done comparatively little to imform and promulate these relatively modern-day concepts, and where progress has been made (and continues to be made) in this area, it is humanist/rationalist thinking that is informing change in Christian/religious dogma, NOT the other way around. (All this is speaking very broadly.)

I am not convinced by Siro's argumant that Christian is dead and replaced by humanism, but I do buy the argument that humanism/rationalism has a far greater influence over Western moral thinking, and the progress of Western legal/moral development, than Christianity or any other religious dogma.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

All in all, considering that the Mormons were driven out of Missouri because they had a cooperative notion of economics and enough group cohesion to look like a threat to non-members, and because they were anti-slavery in a place where that was the hot button issue of the day.... and on and on down the historical trail of being pretty much excluded from, or seeking isolation from, mainstream society, the LDS have done pretty well to end up being as inclusive of others as they are.

Some of you voice concerns I've gone over myself at some point, and I see the validity of those concerns. I choose to let the poor Mormons live as they are, and pursue of policy of acceptance for those differences. But I'm not "active", and I don't go there to get my virtue-validating card, and I don't need their approval for my way of life, either. Easy to be tolerant on those terms.

I look at "God" in a conscious effort to not blame "God" for what people say, do, or believe. I prefer to believe there is a "God" on the Mormon notion generally, that of a Father in Heaven, a person actually of good character worthy of emulation and respect. If there is no "God" as I believe or imagine, it does not change my idea of what kind of person I should be.

I believe I should be a better person than I've ever been. I believe I should gain better understanding than I've ever had. I believe I should treat other people better than I ever have yet done. Lots of good stuff to reach for.

If the LDS people or leaders don't also believe that, I'd be pretty disappointed. I sorta think they do.

I think LDS leaders are getting better at this, but still have a ways to go on the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" thing. They are still struggling to apply this principle (which, if I understand the New Testament, supercedes anything found in the Old Testament, including 10 Commandments)to gays.

 

[sirkickyass]

Yesterday the preacher, from the pulpit, cited favorably the comic book series "Preacher." I was tempted to ask if his favorite part is when the inbred progeny of jesus flings his own feces at the Pope. The Trump Bumpers might be too liberal.

 

[RandyForRubio]

The Bible dramatically changes between the Old and New Testament. So now what?

God does not change though. The NT is just a fulfillment of OT prophesy.

 

[babe]

Of course you're a humanist. You believe in inherent human rights, don't you? What can be more humanist than that?

I also have to take into account that the Biblical figures who warned of false prophets really meant that they themselves were the real thing. It's like the prohibition on idols. It's really about worshiping the correct idol.

We protect nutcases in our society because we're no longer Christians. Saint Augustine warned that nothing we do can get us to heaven, because God is the final authority. That's monotheism. We now have Christian-flavored humanists arguing with atheist-flavored humanists. It is an amazing time. But maybe all of them were.

Not me though. I'm no humanist. Except when I am. Other times I'm a transhumanist cultist, but then I remember that I'm a nihilist. But really, isn't humanity incredible?

yah, fair enough. I was incredulous that you were an AI buff with great expectations of technology enhancing organic Darwin products.

As a "Godist", I question the absolute triumph of self-aggrandizing and self-enhancing folks who wish to perfect "God's" work.

JEJ is right about traditional interpretations of Christ's, or Moses's, views of human rights. But we have those views from a studious line of re-formulators of such inputs, always seeking to re-shape things into their own "better" views. Usually, in the interest of a community denominated by the least intellect, St. Augustine and Aquinas excepted of course.

The Law of Moses does put forward concepts of basic human rights. We have a lot of references to "the right of the widow" and other people in need, to a share of the crop or in the case of the widow, to support from her deceased husband's family.

Jesus did put, in his teachings, an absolute imperative on personal accountability, personal responsibility, and on doing good to others, even your worst enemies. The right of personal belief, of personal conscience, and of all kinds of personal choices.... freedoms in other words.... is inherent in those teachings.

As a "Godist", I am putting an emphasis on the enquiry, the personal search, the personal quest for a relationship with a "God", on His terms, whatever those may be. If I am a slave, in any sense, bound to duty before God, it is my liberty to make the choice to be a good one.... but I'm afraid I'd spend most of my time preaching to my ignorant disbelieving owner, lol, who should set me free. Much like I preach to the guvmint enthusiasts in here who have all kinds of ideas about what I must think, say, or do.....

Sometimes I refer to "God" or "religion" as placeholder concepts encompassing, and attempting to render into an intelligible set of notions, mostly far beyond anything we actually do know, objectively speaking.....

"God", or "Truth", is. as in IS. The Biblical self-existing One described by the self-sufficient and sovereign "I AM", the essential thing Christ claimed that enraged the priests of his time and got him nailed to the cross for, in various terms, blasphemy, equating himself with God, or claiming to be the King of Israel.

Pontius Pilate, to justify his sentence in strict Roman legality, had to write "The King of the Jews" on the cross, effectively calling Jesus a rebel, revolutionary, unlawful citizen whose offense was against Rome's rule.

man-made laws, and guvmints, and vaunted concepts of nature, fall short of having actual instructions or relationships with the infinite. Maybe some Taoist or Buddhists believe their religion is essentially that quest for oneness with the infinite.....

So, no, I'm not a humanist. My line of thinking about Human Rights is an attribution to what I believe God is, and must be. Mormons believe we are "intelligences" co-eternal with God, having innate rights that pre-existed even our birth here, and that God must adhere to eternal principles of justice, respect, and such.

I have a hard time thinking this mortal life can even approach true "justice" in an eternal sense, and I look towards an infinite existence beyond this few years here, where whatever I suffer and all I learn from experience, will be a extreme positive asset forever more.

Even Obamacare can't match that.