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Longest Thread Ever

PKM said:
Two choices if you're uploading from phone/cpu.
1) first upload to pic hosting site such as photobucket and then use that url as described above.
2) download the jazzcanz app and then u can post directly from phone.
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I see.

hmmmmm. . . . . this means I can use my phone cam too. . . . . that is truly a wow. . . .

bow wow.

I'm gonna tell my wife about this, we're both going to move on up in this world now.
 
babe said:
If you know they're aliens and who they work for, that's not "unidentified" anything. . . .

Actually, when I look at anyone's crude scenarios of the history of the world/mankind/the universe, even mine, I suspect it's gonna be "way off" and expect it to be "way out there". Not just with megahistory, but megascience and megatheology as well. Sci-Fi is only "reasonable" because we know the author is making it all up, ha ha. But serious lit and serious cosmologies are just whacked because, first of all, the authors are seriously deluded somehow in thinking they know what they're talking about, and they just don't see how they're "making it all up".

Mormons used to have a pretty concise explanation of it all, but since oh about a hundred years ago, or at least since Heber J. Grant and James E. Talmadge signed the LDS up with the WCC, the authorized world religion that will officially mesmerize and bedazzle the masses in the New World Order, it hasn't been tolerated by the authorities. Since the sixties, the LDS Church "correlation committee" has been carefully grooming the Church membership to follow the manuals in the classes and accept a sort of "living oracles" idea much like progressive lawyers have pushed "administrative law" under a "living Constitution" which only means what authorities say it means, and puts us all under progressive management imperatives, without recourse.

So, no kiddies, it's no longer fashionable or trendy to "out" the other religion as the work of the Devil, especially since the Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Protestants and some other big players have signed up with the WCC. Under the newspeak, all religions are valid if they are what makes you feel good, just like the new math will smile at you-all no matter what the answer may be that you prefer. You should be validated at all costs. No one should contradict you or make you feel bad. You are the new God.
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I guess I just figured if the anti-Christ is evil he would have his evil "holy ones" from the large sampling on the Earth...no need to access other planets.

Well Mormon's have to believe the Anti-Christ is one of their own, since they believe the witnesses in Israel are their own. The apostasy is among their own. It is all pretty much internal prophecy.
 
PearlWatson said:
I guess I just figured if the anti-Christ is evil he would have his evil "holy ones" from the large sampling on the Earth...no need to access other planets.

Well Mormon's have to believe the Anti-Christ is one of their own, since they believe the witnesses in Israel are their own. The apostasy is among their own. It is all pretty much internal prophecy.
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I've seen the Mormons, and some of their offshoot groups, do this exactly. Taking the scripture in II Thess. about the "Wicked" sitting in the temple of God, showing himself he is "God", they do specifically imagine it's gonna happen in their own "temple". Complete with specific arguments about what constitutes their own special forms of "apostasy".
 
babe said:
I've seen the Mormons, and some of their offshoot groups, do this exactly. Taking the scripture in II Thess. about the "Wicked" sitting in the temple of God, showing himself he is "God", they do specifically imagine it's gonna happen in their own "temple". Complete with specific arguments about what constitutes their own special forms of "apostasy".
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I don't think all eschatology is internal and maybe the Mormon's ain't either as far as who will deceive their people.
Maybe they think the last pope or the 12th Imam will perform deceptive "signs and wonders" since their own prophet would never deceive them.
They definitely believe the temple rebuilt in Jerusalem will be their own.

I'm trying to understand where exactly you part ways with Mormons.
It sounds like you believe Smith is a prophet, but after that the prophets becomes too authoritative for your liking?
It seems like it is the structure rather than the ideology, but maybe you take issue with some their ideology as well?
 
PearlWatson said:
I don't think all eschatology is internal and maybe the Mormon's ain't either as far as who will deceive their people.
Maybe they think the last pope or the 12th Imam will perform deceptive "signs and wonders" since their own prophet would never deceive them.
They definitely believe the temple rebuilt in Jerusalem will be their own.

I'm trying to understand where exactly you part ways with Mormons.
It sounds like you believe Smith is a prophet, but after that the prophets becomes too authoritative for your liking?
It seems like it is the structure rather than the ideology, but maybe you take issue with some their ideology as well?
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It sounds like you really want this thread to be the longest thread ever. . . . .
 
babe said:
When it comes to "religion" my belief is about God, not anyone else.
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Joseph Smith, or Jesus, is only relevant in the context of God, our Father. Unlike most theologians as well as their own adherents, they are interesting to me because of their doctrinal statements setting God the Father out as our Father in very fact. They both were killed for doing this.
 
So I'm still looking for the PDF file that is my cousin's book. . . . the gnostic doctor delving into quantum mechanics and finding consciousness is part of the universal wave equation of all existence. . . .
 
So now I found it with a search of my email. . . . and read a bit of it again. It is actually quite enjoyable, written in an open style without careful attention to controlling the reader response. . .. and has a lot of local lore which I find curious. . . .
 
It is quite directly a product of Mormonism, though as I understand it, my cousin hasn't been any more compliant with Mormonism than I've been, in terms of ritual attendance habits. . . .
 
There is definitely an evaluation of general "American" religion, as well, from standpoint that American values have followed a trend of gnostic practice from the beginning. . . . our churches were never merely transplants of European institutions. Folks who got American mud on their boots immediately began to speak of God as a near-acquaintance, a palpable presence in their lives that anyone could know simply by reading the bible or praying in the woods. . . . And there was no need for further "authority" than that. . . . .
 
Joseph Smith, obviously, was just such an American. Call it fraud if you like, but to people like this, knowing God is a direct and personal thing, and without consulting the official manuals written by pious scholars, apologists for institutions, they come out of the woods believing they got their religion straight from God.
 
I think the anti-christ is symbolic more than a real entity. I do not believe that a single individual will arise that represents Satan and his minions, or what have you.
 
This is not an original comment on Joseph Smith or Mormonism at all, I heard it years ago. The question of whether Mormonism could have sprung up in any other country than America. . . . whether our Constitution provided essential rights for people to seek God on their own, or whether any other nation would have let a religion like Mormonism grow at all, or whether there would have been any people at all who would have found it acceptable enough to believe the teachings. . . .

Mormonism could not have happened anywhere else, but on the American frontier of the early nineteenth century.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think the anti-christ is symbolic more than a real entity. I do not believe that a single individual will arise that represents Satan and his minions, or what have you.
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well, Log, you are partly right in the point that no simply mortal man is or will be the anti-Christ. Most Christians would pin it on Lucifer himself, and some early Mormons viewed it as the specific mortal who first made a deal with the Devil. . . . Cain, who was in the Inspired Translation of the KJV done by Joseph Smith, also called "Master Mahan" and who, like Saint John the Beloved and the Three Nephites, has been in a sort of halfway house between mortality and the the spirit world. . . . still "mortal" but not appointed to death until some later time. Cain is according to this idea, the mortal representative in the flesh of Lucifer. For the "good guys" the change to immortality will perhaps be when the Lord comes again with all the Saints: for the evil "Wicked", it will perhaps be at the end of the thousand years' reign of Jesus just prior to the last judgment.

In the Doctrine and Covenants, there is also a character termed the "One Mighty and Strong" who is represented as coming at a point in time to set the Church in order, and a lot of men with audacious braggadoccio have tried to hold forth that they are that "One", sometimes right in the bag with being Jesus Himself as well. . . . no end to the delusions of grandeur humans can cook up. . . . . It seems to me that this character will be, from the description given, an immortal personage who does hold authority over the Church superior to any living oracles. Put that down as Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith spoke once of a dream wherein he returned after a long time to find the Church in a condition of complete disorder and malappropriateness, and how he was going to have to set things right again. . . .

I'd put it down as doctrine that Joseph holds the keys to this dispensation.
 
babe said:
This is not an original comment on Joseph Smith or Mormonism at all, I heard it years ago. The question of whether Mormonism could have sprung up in any other country than America. . . . whether our Constitution provided essential rights for people to seek God on their own, or whether any other nation would have let a religion like Mormonism grow at all, or whether there would have been any people at all who would have found it acceptable enough to believe the teachings. . . .

Mormonism could not have happened anywhere else, but on the American frontier of the early nineteenth century.
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My cousin, who like me worked for Henry E. Eyring for a while, spoke of his relationship and recollections of that time. . . . . How when Henry E. Eyring, who is the father of the current counselor to the President of the LDS Church, Henry B. Eyring, spent a short time in the room where his wife Mildred Bennion had just died, and who had prayed in front of the family that someone of his family would come to take her home. . . .

When he emerged from that room, he told his family directly that his mother had come for his wife.

This struck a chord with me because of a similar thing that happened when my brother died. I speak just as matter of factly that Henry E. Eyring came with my grandfather to take my brother home.

My cousin calls this sort of thing "Gnosticism". . . . the direct experiential "knowing" of God and of spiritual truth. It makes us pretty refractory to the arguments of know-nothings who mock religion, to say the least.
 
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