Lyles

[Nate505]

Ive been right about all Jazz draft picks so just ask me. He is a bench role player. Best case Lamar Odom type when lakers had they big 3 bigs and kobe.. Most likely he is a 7th or 8th guy off a bench. Sorry but its true. Check my track record

Yeah, here's one of your "gems" about Hayward:

Last year after hayward was drafted all i heard for his argument was he lead a team to a final 4. I came on here and said he wasnt the leader or the 2nd guy even , he was 3rd option and i was bashed as being an idiot who knows nothing boutbball. A year later maybe some of you will own up and give me an apology where its due. MAck is a player the jazz should be looking at and i said it last year. Hayward was only 3rd option on the butler team. Mack was 1 and howard was 2.My props are due here. If you dont believe me drag up the threads from a year ago.

Right now Mack will be lucky to have a career in the NBA beyond 3 or so more seasons, while Hayward is averaging 19 points and shooting about 40% from 3.

Great call there, I totally see how you're like right all the time.

 

[silesian]

Originally Posted by ncoloradojazz: Last year after hayward was drafted all i heard for his argument was he lead a team to a final 4. I came on here and said he wasnt the leader or the 2nd guy even , he was 3rd option and i was bashed as being an idiot who knows nothing boutbball. A year later maybe some of you will own up and give me an apology where its due. MAck is a player the jazz should be looking at and i said it last year. Hayward was only 3rd option on the butler team. Mack was 1 and howard was 2.My props are due here. If you dont believe me drag up the threads from a year ago.

Come on, Mack was clearly the second option. Don't let facts like fewer minutes, fewer shots and fewer points get in the way of ncoloradojazz's narrative. He is always correct, and if you don't believe me, just read his posts, each of which say "I am always right" (or some variant thereof)

 

[Keefe]

Lyles is a 19 year old frail rookie and over the last seven games he's averaged 8.48 rebounds per 36 minutes. That's ****ing good. Sure his scoring is low but so was Exum's last year and if nothing else, we certainly see improvement there and still have 55 games to go. Add in really good handles for a kid his size and range (only eight three-point attempts but we saw range in the pre-season and I think he's playing within himself much like Exum was coached to do last year) and I think we could have a heck of a player. The defense will come.

 

[Hotdog]

I don't get the love for Lyles. I don't see it. I can't imagine in any scenario he becomes a good player. He's a massive project with no upside.

He certainly doesn't project as a force down low offensively or defensively like a traditional power forward. And he certainly doesn't project to be a Draymond Green type. Which I think people are hoping for. He's nothing like Draymond.

I don't know what he is, or what he is going to contribute that you couldn't just pick up in free agency for cheap. Seems like a giant waste of time to be developing him.

 

[Kyoto]

I don't get the love for Lyles. I don't see it. I can't imagine in any scenario he becomes a good player. He's a massive project with no upside.

He certainly doesn't project as a force down low offensively or defensively like a traditional power forward. And he certainly doesn't project to be a Draymond Green type. Which I think people are hoping for. He's nothing like Draymond.

I don't know what he is, or what he is going to contribute that you couldn't just pick up in free agency for cheap. Seems like a giant waste of time to be developing him.

He's less than 20 years old, no one knows what he will be yet.

 

[Hotdog]

He's less than 20 years old, no one knows what he will be yet.

There are a lot of 20 year olds in the world that we aren't sure what they will become. There is chance Lyles turns out good. Im not counting on it though. I don't see the early signs and traits of how good players start out. He's below average at everything. He doesn't have any size or athleticism to get excited about. That's my point. I'm not guaranteeing it. I just think that homerism can get out of hand sometimes. I don't understand it. I'd rather just be honest to myself about what I see.

 

[Hotdog]

I don't understand the Exum love fest either, but at least he's flashed a crossover here and there, a nice pass, some good defense, and is long for his position.

Lyles is just this terrible generic undersized player that has nothing that stands out, and sucks at everything. But somehow because he has shown to have a well rounded crappy game, then he has potential in some people's eyes.



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[NUMBERICA]

Lyles is undersized?

 

[Hotdog]

Lyles is undersized?

He's not overly long. His shoulders aren't broad. He plays weak and small. He may measure out ok, but he is missing something.

 

[NUMBERICA]

He's not overly long. His shoulders aren't broad. He plays weak and small. He may measure out ok, but he is missing something.

It could easily and largely be age. He wasn't my guy but I'm trying to be optimistic.

 

[Hotdog]

Lyles is a 19 year old frail rookie and over the last seven games he's averaged 8.48 rebounds per 36 minutes. That's ****ing good. Sure his scoring is low but so was Exum's last year and if nothing else, we certainly see improvement there and still have 55 games to go. Add in really good handles for a kid his size and range (only eight three-point attempts but we saw range in the pre-season and I think he's playing within himself much like Exum was coached to do last year) and I think we could have a heck of a player. The defense will come.

8.48 rebounds per 36?

That's good? Per 36 is not reliable. 8 Rebounds for a guy who is 6'10" playing the power forward position should be the bare minimum that player should get. Regardless of age. It should be one of the first skills you master.

I really see no reason to get all that excited about that. The eye test tells me he isn't good rebounder. In the sense that he isn't going to go get you a key offensive rebound when you need it. He'll get his free 8 rebounds that every forward pretty much gets a game. The ones that just fall to you. That's all that per 36 is telling you.

 

[karl malone]

Some people are writing off Lyles way too early. He is a 19 year old rookie who has played less than 30 professional games & still has a lot of development left physically.
I understand that this has been a frustrating season for Jazz fans but Lyles was drafted for the player he projects to be in 3-4 years, not now.

While he may not project to be a star caliber player, he does project to be a complimentary, high-character player who possesses a unique skill-set for his position that fits our system & compliments our other bigs well.

I wasn't a huge fan of the pick at the time but we will not know if DL has made the right decision for several years. Lyles is undoubtedly a project, but considering the circumstances, he has shown improvement & reason to be optimistic. If he is able to develop a consistent jump shot & add some strength, he has the potential to be a championship caliber role player, which is about as much as you can hope for from the #12 pick in a shallow draft. Don't give up faith just yet.

 

[silesian]

He's not overly long.......He may measure out ok

Not sure what part of "longness" can't be measured.

 

[silesian]

8 Rebounds for a guy who is 6'10" playing the power forward position should be the bare minimum that player should get.

FYI, there are 50 centers and power forwards below your "bare minimum" number. So I guess there are not quite as many rebounds that "just fall to you" as you may have expected.

 

[NAOS]

I meant to type up some responses I had to seeing the Jazz in real life and up close, but didn't. If I had, then I would have praised Lyles. I liked him much more than I expected. I think his potential understanding and feel for the game, if realized, could make him an excellent complementary player. His defense is ahead of where I thought it'd be; he can thread some very good passes; he's a better rebounder than I thought he'd be at this point; etc. Once he finds his shot and his favorite spots on the floor, then he'll make a measurable leap. I'm glad we drafted him over Booker, even though I've said otherwise.

 

[Hotdog]

FYI, there are 50 centers and power forwards below your "bare minimum" number. So I guess there are not quite as many rebounds that "just fall to you" as you may have expected.

Why do you gotta lie?

There are only 8 players in the entire league who average more than 36 minutes per game.

And there are a lot of players who average over 8 rebounds a game in less than 36 minutes per game.

 

[silesian]

Hack: "There are only 8 players in the entire league who average more than 36 minutes per game."

True but moot.

The point you are debating is around RP36, which gives you a rebound per unit of playing time. You would get the same ranking if it were RP48 or RPM. The 36 is arbitrary. I assumed that you had understood this since we are talking about Trey Lyles's RP36 and Trey is not averaging 36 mpg.

Hack: "And there are a lot of players who average over 8 rebounds a game in less than 36 minutes per game."

There are 33 out of 428 NBA players players with over 8 rebounds a game in less than 36 minute per game. You consider that "a lot"?

 

[Keefe]

8.48 rebounds per 36?

That's good? Per 36 is not reliable. 8 Rebounds for a guy who is 6'10" playing the power forward position should be the bare minimum that player should get. Regardless of age. It should be one of the first skills you master.

I really see no reason to get all that excited about that. The eye test tells me he isn't good rebounder. In the sense that he isn't going to go get you a key offensive rebound when you need it. He'll get his free 8 rebounds that every forward pretty much gets a game. The ones that just fall to you. That's all that per 36 is telling you.

Yes, it's good you hack. Look at what Blake averages. Dirk. Lamarcus. And the kid is 19 years old and frail.

 

[Keefe]

That's more per than Hibbert, Dirk, Marc Gasol, Horford, Ibaka, Ryan Anderson, and Mozgov to name a few.

Seriously, do you have a ****ing clue?

 

[Hotdog]

Yes, it's good you hack. Look at what Blake averages. Dirk. Lamarcus. And the kid is 19 years old and frail.

Those guys aren't good rebounder either. They are also pretty pathetic in that department. But they are elite scorers. Something Lyles is not. He's an awful scorer. He's bad at everything.