LogGrad98
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That's awesome! Bet it was a lot of fun.
Game Thread Mar 12, 2022 08:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Kings
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Added to Calendar: 03-12-22
jom2003
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You need athletic wings to play small. A lineup that is both small and slow at the same time will not survive defensively.
DudssltieriBR
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416Klawzz
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Yes but he is one of 2 players that can create his own offense. Without him last night we lose
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
So, those stats are the stats of a top 20 pg, I shouldn’t be dissatisfied with those numbers? WTF are you talking about? I already knew those players were better. I’m supposed to be satisfied with those numbers?
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
-Any game we win without Gobert or Mike is a good win.
- I thought Butler had some nice moments (and a couple bad ones too), not enough to earn him a spot in the rotation unfortunately.
- In my opinion Gay has gone from looking bad to ok, hopefully he looks good by the end of the season.
- On the negative side our defense was just bad. Our clutch defense was still awful. When we did play good defense, we couldn't get a rebound.
- I remember when Donovan used to be amazing in the 4th quarter. I'm not sure what happened.
- I thought Butler had some nice moments (and a couple bad ones too), not enough to earn him a spot in the rotation unfortunately.
- In my opinion Gay has gone from looking bad to ok, hopefully he looks good by the end of the season.
- On the negative side our defense was just bad. Our clutch defense was still awful. When we did play good defense, we couldn't get a rebound.
- I remember when Donovan used to be amazing in the 4th quarter. I'm not sure what happened.
jope
Well-Known Member
When he’s engaged*, he gives you at least 90% of what Gobert gives you, while taking up only 1.2% of our cap%**
* he’s not always engaged
** Gobert takes up 24% of our cap%, and will take up far more than that in the coming seasons
It's a huge issue. He's a bad team defender too.
Athleticism isn't as important as rebounding and toughness when it comes to small ball.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Yes. Because Conley at this point of his career is nothing more than a below average starter and a role player. You should be satisfied with those numbers for a PG who isn't even ranked top 15 in his position.
Surprised to see today that Whiteside is #1 in offensive rating(Mitchell is #2) and #2 in net rating of qualified players.
Players Advanced | Stats | NBA.com
A table featuring advanced information for each player in the league based on selected filters.
jope
Well-Known Member
7th in the league in net rating too (Ahead of Gobert)Surprised to see today that Whiteside is #1 in offensive rating(Mitchell is #2) and #2 in net rating of qualified players.
Players Advanced | Stats | NBA.com
A table featuring advanced information for each player in the league based on selected filters.www.nba.com
Him and Rudy are #2 and #3 in rebounding.
One costs 2.4M and the other costs 35M
Looking at this salary chart is so depressing. We are seriously going to be on the hook for paying 46M for a 34 year old Gobert?
Surprised to see today that Whiteside is #1 in offensive rating(Mitchell is #2) and #2 in net rating of qualified players.
Players Advanced | Stats | NBA.com
A table featuring advanced information for each player in the league based on selected filters.
One day we will stop using team stats to describe individual players. Today is not that day.
Players off/net rating is a different calculation than team off/net rating. The team can effect it, which is why many are high on the list due to us having the best offense but there are individual factors to it. But it takes individual things such as points and offensive rebounds into the equation. There is a reason why some on our team are high and others are low. But there is no such thing as a stat that isnt influenced by the team due to the nature of it being a team sport.
It's quite literally the team's offensive/net rating when that player is on the court. An individual player obviously has an impact on the minutes he plays and it is one component of evaluating a player, but it is a team metric. The reasons why some are high and some are low because players play in different lineups.
There are better estimates of how a player effects a lineup as an individual. If you look at those numbers, this Whiteside-Gobert comparison is laughable as it should be. If you're using a pure offensive/defensive/net rating, it would be similar to evaluating a 3 point shooter solely on 3FG%. You'd be completely ignoring the context of how that number is produced. You shouldn't ignore 3FG%....but you would also be an idiot to ponder if Royce is a better shooter than Don because his 3FG% is so much higher.
There are other stats great for evaluating players. None of them are perfect and should be used alone. Across a season this stat shows an impact of a player. Our offense is playing very well when he is on the court. More so than when any other player for the Jazz is on the court.
It does not show the impact of a player across a season. Like I said, it quite literally is the team's performance when that player is on the court. If you don't see the flaws in that, or if you don't understand the other alternatives...I don't know what to tell you. A simple exercise of looking at the other players on this list is the very least you could do. If you stand by this logic and choose to ignore everything else, stand by your logic. Tell me that Jrue is more impactful on offense than Giannis. That Stephen Adams is more impactful than Ja. You're absolutely right that nothing should be used alone, and this is the exact reason for that. If you want to make the statistical argument for Whiteside in comparison to Gobert, you'll find how laughable that is unless you cherry pick single statistics in this way.
Strictly on offense, I don't think it's really that crazy. But the idea of citing one single offensive statistic, that is heavily team based as it is a team statistic, in response to "Whiteside gives you 90% of what Gobert gives you" is ridiculous. 90% of what Gobert gives has nothing to do with offense. Typically I wouldn't even humor this stupid comparison, but nothing irks me than the blatant misuse of statistics.
Lol, it does show his impact on our team across the season. Yes there are flaws, it doesn't mean he is the best in the NBA, no one is using it that way. There is no such thing as an individual stat without a flaw. This one has its use along with others. Sorry this is such a trigger for you.
I think you have made some strange assumptions about it's use based on my first post of saying I was surprised he was #1 in the NBA at this.
You don’t justify using one stat by saying that using any one stat is bad. Using it to support the argument that he is 90% of Rudy is not the use for this. The use is to literally know team performance when he is on the court, not individual impact. Team performance while on the court is not remotely close to individual impact.